R39.17/R39.21 Paycheck Corruption [Edited]

jr_ece

Concerned User said:

The only good thing to come from this situation is now that all my legacy data is technically vulnerable and potentially unreliable, I've already experienced the pain from ripping the band aid off. Just wasn't my choosing.

Very solid point. As Chris pointed out I've also encountered many of the Quicken failures over the years. That said, I don't believe I've ever experienced this level of user data file corruption at the hands of Quicken. It just feels different this time when ALL paychecks back to mid 2006 (in my case) are overwritten with incorrect data. This is a major turning point of trust.

In a nutshell, if Chris' point is truly more correct in that this level of complacency and lack of testing rigor has always existed then for sure all of us need to find a safer data keeper.

Think about this. I see 3 general categories of people. 1) those who run open loop on finances with no budget no tracking, 2) those who want finance "lite" and are using a simple spreadsheet or one of the highly rated online tools for simple tracking, and 3) those who care about financial details not only for budgeting but also tax and/or investing purposes to plan and save for various things including retirement. I might be wrong, but I feel groups 1 and 2 are not using Quicken (why would you when M*nt is free??). That leaves group 3. Right. The ones who care about financial details. We NEED to TRUST the tools helping us collect and manage these details. Broken.

jr_ece

Roger Miller said:

CountDeMonet2022 said:

> @StaticWater said:
> The fact that we were not pro-actively notified of data corruption is unconscionable. Our financial lives are dependent on accurate data. This is one of the most egregious failures I have personally been a victim of in my 35 years of being in IT.

Indeed. An epic failure. We should all get a year free subscription as reparations.

Yeah, good luck with the reparations...lol.

I do agree that this was an epic failure. I'm simply stunned that this was treated just like any other smaller bug by Quicken. What about all the users who don't visit this community? And the ones who rely solely on customer support? I genuinely feel very sorry for them. IMHO, Quicken should have waved all the red flags and sent an email to each and every user, alerting them to this problem, and providing a clear description of the workaround. They have all of our email addresses. We get an annual email from the CEO, don't we?

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7909912/issue-user-alert-for-quicken-updates-that-have-gone-awry/p1?new=1

craigcanderson

I have spent many hours restoring to by 2-28-22 backup and re-posting everything since then (again). It looks like it is going to fix the issue, but I cannot believe Quicken released an update the significantly corrupted our files and did not even consider a proactive warning. I am sure there are many who use payroll wizard. After I finish fixing this nightmare I am shopping for another personal financial management software alternative.

jr_ece

@craigcanderson Probably quite a few in your camp of shopping for something else. The market appears ripe for someone to take massive market share. In the meantime, it would be great if we can get a large group of us to up vote this idea.

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7909912/issue-user-alert-for-quicken-updates-that-have-gone-awry/p1?new=1

Q_user

I was able to resolve the problem with my accounts by restoring from my backup(s) from just before the March 4th update. I then updated my online accounts to get them back to the latest entries. I then re-entered my manual entries I had done since March 4th. One thing that helped me find all my manual entries was to utilize the "Export to Excel Workbook (.xlsx) option from the accounts in which I do manual entries. I did this from my the latest account (.qdf) file before I did the restore from the backups.

George P

I've restored from an old backup and re-entered my manual entries. I see there is a new version of Quicken. I've been afraid to update. Is it safe?

davidmarketing

All:

I believe I fixed my data but I used a backup from 03/09/2022. I see people are pointing out to 03/04/2022 as the point of corruption so I am wondering if my data fie is still corrupt. It's possible that I didn't update Quicken from 03/04 through 03/09 so maybe I am ok.

1. Was the only thing corrupted the paycheck wizard data? Any other split transactions that you know of that I can check?
2. I'd rather go back and fix my data now rather than wait weeks/months. How can I confirm my data file is fine?

Thanks,
David

Roger Miller

@davidmarketing

Quicken automatically saves a backup when installing a new version. When I went from 38.30 to 39.17, it saved the file QDATA-R-38.30-2022-03-04.QDF-backup, which is dated March 4, 2022. This is the file I used to restore from. Actually, I just renamed it to QDATA.QDF, and used it as my new data file. I don't care so much about the date of the file, but rather that this is the last backup file when I was using version 38.30, which is the last known good version.

These backup files are located in your folder Documents/Quicken/Backup.

Chris_QPW

jr_ece said:

Concerned User said:

The only good thing to come from this situation is now that all my legacy data is technically vulnerable and potentially unreliable, I've already experienced the pain from ripping the band aid off. Just wasn't my choosing.

Very solid point. As Chris pointed out I've also encountered many of the Quicken failures over the years. That said, I don't believe I've ever experienced this level of user data file corruption at the hands of Quicken. It just feels different this time when ALL paychecks back to mid 2006 (in my case) are overwritten with incorrect data. This is a major turning point of trust.

In a nutshell, if Chris' point is truly more correct in that this level of complacency and lack of testing rigor has always existed then for sure all of us need to find a safer data keeper.

When something works right for you for a long time, you assume it works right for everyone, but that isn't always the case.

Because of what I don't use and other factors, my data file has been relatively corruption free, but not completely.   In fact, my trying to use Online Bills for a while rendered it into a completely unusable state along with tons of other users doing the same.  If it wasn't for the fact that I gave my data file to Quicken Inc to find the problem and fix my data file, I would have had to use my file that I reconstructed from a QIF export/import.  And I have had a couple of corrupted investment accounts over the years, that I just created another account and continued on with.

Some people use features like Sync to Mobile/Web, Quicken Bill Manager, and Express Web Connect and have a much worse time.  And there seems to be some people that just have worse luck.

I do think that some of the "new features" are more problematic but Quicken has never been "corruption free".  In fact, I list the yearly conversions that used to happen as one of the number one causes of it in the past.

No program can guarantee a problem free experience, or perfect data retention, because their isn't any perfect human to program such a thing.

davidmarketing

That's a good point. I used Quicken's backup before the last update which was more recent than my manual backups.

XXXFinances-R-38.30-2022-03-09.QDF-backup

So, I am feeling pretty confident that this is the latest fie. I can't remember when Quicken started doing this automatic backup but it's good they do. I also do my manual backup every 2-3 weeks to be sure.

I didn't keep up with the revisions and wasn't sure that 38.30 was the last clean update. I realized the problem on March 9th but wasn't sure if that was the problem update or a previous update. Since it was an issue with old paychecks, I wouldn't notice unless looking.

David

Roger Miller

@davidmarketing

Yes, you should be good with that backup file.

When the problem first emerged, Quicken was telling people to revert to version 38.30, which was the last clean version, and to restore the last backup that was saved under 38.30. Then they released version 39.23, which fixes the problem moving forward. After installing 39.23, you still need to restore the last backup from 38.30, if you had not already done so.

In your case, you need to re-enter transactions dated back to March 9.

Yes, I agree that the automatic backups are a good idea. They certainly help when there are problems related to a specific version of Quicken, like we are experiencing here.

CountDeMonet2022

> @davidmarketing said:
> That's a good point. I used Quicken's backup before the last update which was more recent than my manual backups.
>
> XXXFinances-R-38.30-2022-03-09.QDF-backup
>
> So, I am feeling pretty confident that this is the latest fie. I can't remember when Quicken started doing this automatic backup
>
> I didn't keep up with the revisions and wasn't sure that 38.30 was the last clean update.
>
> David

R38.30 was the last clean version before the R39.17/21 debacle. I’ve never tried to restore from one of those auto-backups Quicken makes pre software update. Have they proven to be reliable? I guess they are just like a manual backup?

I create manual backups and validate every one after working with each financial institution. Then I move the Validated data file to another folder so it doesn’t get overwritten by the next backup. From past experience, a single errant download can mess up the data file, create duplicate transactions, etc. so I’m never more than a couple of hours of work ahead of my latest backup. Periodically, I make an encrypted offsite backup as well in case of a disaster recovery scenario.

Roger Miller

CountDeMonet2022 said:

> @davidmarketing said:
>

R38.30 was the last clean version before the R39.17/21 debacle. I’ve never tried to restore from one of those auto-backups Quicken makes pre software update. Have they proven to be reliable? I guess they are just like a manual backup?

@Count@CountDeMonet2022

Quicken creates an automatic date/time stamped backup when you close the program, and also a date/time/version stamped backup when you install a new version. These are no different than the manual backups. I restored from the backup that was saved when I installed the faulty 39.17 version, and the data file is perfect.

jr_ece

Chris_QPW said:

jr_ece said:

Concerned User said:

The only good thing to come from this situation is now that all my legacy data is technically vulnerable and potentially unreliable, I've already experienced the pain from ripping the band aid off. Just wasn't my choosing.

Very solid point. As Chris pointed out I've also encountered many of the Quicken failures over the years. That said, I don't believe I've ever experienced this level of user data file corruption at the hands of Quicken. It just feels different this time when ALL paychecks back to mid 2006 (in my case) are overwritten with incorrect data. This is a major turning point of trust.

In a nutshell, if Chris' point is truly more correct in that this level of complacency and lack of testing rigor has always existed then for sure all of us need to find a safer data keeper.

.

.

.

Some people use features like Sync to Mobile/Web, Quicken Bill Manager, and Express Web Connect and have a much worse time.  And there seems to be some people that just have worse luck.

I do think that some of the "new features" are more problematic but Quicken has never been "corruption free".  In fact, I list the yearly conversions that used to happen as one of the number one causes of it in the past.

No program can guarantee a problem free experience, or perfect data retention, because their isn't any perfect human to program such a thing.

The fact there are additional features that are unusable further supports finding a new solution. All things considered Quicken has no more usable features than many of the online "lite" tools.

Agree on this final point, but there is such a thing as "better".

Chris_QPW

jr_ece said:
Quicken has no more usable features than many of the online "lite" tools.

 As soon as you said "online", you lost most of the Quicken user base.

jr_ece

Interesting way to see it. It suggests that most users don't want quicken online.

Regardless of that point my point is that comparisons generally pit it against at least some online providers. The features that generally separate quicken from the crowd are seemingly the ones that are unusable. That was it.

Roger Miller

jr_ece said:

Interesting way to see it. It suggests that most users don't want quicken online.

Regardless of that point my point is that comparisons generally pit it against at least some online providers. The features that generally separate quicken from the crowd are seemingly the ones that are unusable. That was it.

Most Quicken users don't want their data stored in the cloud. Many are OK with it, but I think that most aren't. At least that's my take on it.

On the 2nd point, I disagree. The features that separate Quicken from its competitors are ones like Tax Planner, Lifetime Planner, Loan tracking, etc. Those features are far from unusable.

Chris_QPW

Yes, sorry I wasn't clear about what I meant.  @Roger Miller nailed.  Most Quicken users want their data to be local.  So, even though have yet to see any competitor with an online (Web/mobile) with anything near the features that Quicken has, it wouldn't matter to most of them if it meant having their data store on some server.

Of course, most Quicken users want to download transactions and such, but that is different.

Amo1

I was one of the first to post regarding the paycheck issue caused by R39.17 back on March 4, and spent 2 1/2 hours that day on the phone with Quicken customer support, who could not (really would not) help me, and told me that the issue was on my end. Only to find many others had the same issues caused by R39.17, as evidenced by the 100+ posts here. I had looped in @Quicken Anja, who let Quicken customer service know that the issue was widespread. In reading these posts, it not only appears that people have concerns about the accuracy of their data and the reliability of Quicken now, but also spent hundreds (if not thousands) of hours trying to either correct the issues caused by the R39.17 update, or determining if there are other issues. My question for @Quicken Anja is what is Quicken going to do in order to regain the trust of their loyal customer base, and more importantly, what is Quicken going to do to ensure that this does not happen again? I use Quicken for personal use and business use, so when an issue like this happens, it not only is a major inconvenience which makes me question the integrity of the Quicken software, but it costs me time and money. I have asked this question on previous posts, and others have as well, so I feel that an answer from Quicken would be warranted here. Thank you.

CountDeMonet2022

Agree. We need to hear from the CEO and replace the head of QA. It’s totally unacceptable and this isn’t the first time. It’s happened several times in the past. The level 1 support people are usually left in the dark and always find some way to blame the users. And they all say something different.

jr_ece

Roger Miller said:

Most Quicken users don't want their data stored in the cloud. Many are OK with it, but I think that most aren't. At least that's my take on it.

On the 2nd point, I disagree. The features that separate Quicken from its competitors are ones like Tax Planner, Lifetime Planner, Loan tracking, etc. Those features are far from unusable.

@Roger Miller and @Chris_QPW seems strange to me. So you are saying Quicken added web/mobile sync for new customers that are still relatively a small group to draw them in or do you think most "Quicken users" applies to all users new or old? Meaning your thoughts are that Quicken wasted efforts adding this feature for a small group of Quicken users?

I would think the group of users who want web/mobile sync is ever increasing and probably rapidly with all of our banks already being on "servers" and with an online presence. It makes sense that Quicken added this feature a few years ago to appeal to those on the go who wanted one place to check balances, transactions, etc while away from home.

I have it disabled right now due to learning that it could be a source of Quicken data issues. But, I did use it and liked it while I had it enabled.

@Roger Miller Interesting list. I don't use any of those except for the loan tracker but really only annually at best if I remember to glance at it.

Chris_QPW

@jr_ece It might be an interesting thing to create a Discussion in the "Water Cooler" section asking how people if they are comfortable with their data being stored entirely on a server.  How about you do that?

My viewpoint might be inaccurate these days, but I doubt it.
Note that what people want and what is possible sometimes conflict.  As in, if the only way to download transactions is with Express Web Connect and it caches transactions on servers, most will live with that.

I'm absolutely sure that Quicken Inc and Intuit before them feel that adding these features is the only way they can grow the business (and customers certainly ask for these features), but there are two main problems with that.  The first is in almost all the cases they have not been able to provide these services in a reliable way.  And the second is really the fact that the "desktop personal finance software" market in shrinking, not growing.  To me this is their attempt to keep it alive as long as possible.

Just look they created Simplifi, would they create that if they thought Quicken was really the future?

Robert Chiarulli

> @Jim_Harman said:
> @Robert Chiarulli
> And after restoring the backup it was OK? 

Yes, I do not validate my file any longer

FredArthur

Question:
I have never used the Paycheck Wizard. However, over the last few weeks I have noticed that my REMINDERS (Bills and Income -> Projected Balances) with splits are corrupted; instead of three lines the split will contain the same three lines repeated multiple times. Sometimes the Amount column appears correct but the Closing Balance column becomes an astronomical number! In other instances, the amount column is incorrect but the REMINDER is correct. 

I deleted the corrupted REMINDERS and reentered them. But I have the feeling it is continuing to happen; deja vu - all over again.

Is this symptomatic of the reported problem?

Thank you,

Fred J.

Chris_QPW

FredArthur said:

Question:
I have never used the Paycheck Wizard. However, over the last few weeks I have noticed that my REMINDERS (Bills and Income -> Projected Balances) with splits are corrupted; instead of three lines the split will contain the same three lines repeated multiple times. Sometimes the Amount column appears correct but the Closing Balance column becomes an astronomical number! In other instances, the amount column is incorrect but the REMINDER is correct. 

I deleted the corrupted REMINDERS and reentered them. But I have the feeling it is continuing to happen; deja vu - all over again.

Is this symptomatic of the reported problem?

Thank you,

Fred J.

As far as I know, the reported problem has always been for the paycheck reminders only.

On the other hand, problems like you describe for reminders has been reported at times over months if not years.  Usually, these problems are associated with using Sync to Mobile/Web.

jr_ece

Chris_QPW said:

@jr_ece It might be an interesting thing to create a Discussion in the "Water Cooler" section asking how people if they are comfortable with their data being stored entirely on a server.  How about you do that?

My viewpoint might be inaccurate these days, but I doubt it.
Note that what people want and what is possible sometimes conflict.  As in, if the only way to download transactions is with Express Web Connect and it caches transactions on servers, most will live with that.

I'm absolutely sure that Quicken Inc and Intuit before them feel that adding these features is the only way they can grow the business (and customers certainly ask for these features), but there are two main problems with that.  The first is in almost all the cases they have not been able to provide these services in a reliable way.  And the second is really the fact that the "desktop personal finance software" market in shrinking, not growing.  To me this is their attempt to keep it alive as long as possible.

Just look they created Simplifi, would they create that if they thought Quicken was really the future?

@Chris_QPW The question is really irrelevant although it could be fun given enough time to stay in touch with the thread. As for data on servers, I can't think of a bank that doesn't already have all of our data stored on a server at a major data center hopefully with top cybersecurity features.

And, the things you pointed out at the end are precisely the point. To stay relevant in today's market I think the online features are a must. To my initial point, the "online providers" appear to be way ahead  and winning in these new categories (i.e., features work vs don't work).

JohnA

1) There’s a difference between financial data from one FI as most banks have vs a central cloud location with all FIs in one place as Quicken Cloud stores. The latter seems much more of a nightmare in case of a breach. To me, the risks including sync data corruption outweigh any benefits.

2) Online data is stored usually for a relatively short period of time. The beauty of Quicken is that it’s all in one place and you never have to worry about data being aged out.

jr_ece

JohnA said:

1) There’s a difference between financial data from one FI as most banks have vs a central cloud location with all FIs in one place as Quicken Cloud stores. The latter seems much more of a nightmare in case of a breach. To me, the risks including sync data corruption outweigh any benefits.

2) Online data is stored usually for a relatively short period of time. The beauty of Quicken is that it’s all in one place and you never have to worry about data being aged out.

@JohnA Fair points. But, I suspect most are either for it or against it (cloud storage) and probably don't know much about the security differences.

Chris_QPW

jr_ece said:

JohnA said:

1) There’s a difference between financial data from one FI as most banks have vs a central cloud location with all FIs in one place as Quicken Cloud stores. The latter seems much more of a nightmare in case of a breach. To me, the risks including sync data corruption outweigh any benefits.

2) Online data is stored usually for a relatively short period of time. The beauty of Quicken is that it’s all in one place and you never have to worry about data being aged out.

@JohnA Fair points. But, I suspect most are either for it or against it (cloud storage) and probably don't know much about the security differences.

Frankly, I doubt most people have a good grasp of all the details, and in fact all the details aren't available, Quicken Inc and Intuit hide them.  BUT there is no doubt in my mind that people have STRONG opinion about this, and most will go to great lengths to "keep their data local", even if in reality it might not be more secure.  Like I said it might be interesting to create a Discussion on it and see how people actually respond to the question.

I will tell you though there is a BIG difference between the fact that your financial institution making your finances available and Quicken/Quicken servers/aggregators (like Intuit) doing the same thing.  A failure at the financial institution is their fault, one outside of their control is going to be a very hard uphill battle to get anyone to take responsibility/get your money back.

FredArthur

Chris_QPW - Thank you for your response. You wrote, "Usually, these problems are associated with using Sync to Mobile/Web." I just recently turned that option on. I never input/update from the app. I will stop doing the Sync to Mobile/Web and burn the app. 

Fred J.