R39.17/R39.21 Paycheck Corruption [Edited]

Gck#

@Jim_Harman My first communication regarding this was on 3-9-2022 with Quicken Support and at that time I was on R39.17. The support person indicated that R39.21 was the latest, however when I checked Quicken online version 21 was not available to me. During this session we restored a previous backup from Mar 7 and that made no difference, we also did a validate and repair and that made no difference. I have yet to restore a prior backup since installing R39.23.

Jim_Harman

@Gck#

Once you have installed R39.23, which fixes this problem going forward, you need to restore a backup from before you installed R39.17. This would be about March 4. See this Announcement

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7909593/windows-r39-xx-release-us

You will have to re-enter any transactions you entered since then.

Mitchell Vardeman

> @Sherlock said:
> I cannot explain why customer service would say there is no way to revert.  Perhaps they know their instructions, as written, do not work reliably:  https://www.quicken.com/support/reinstalling-and-patching-your-quicken-subscription-version-after-your-membership-has

Customer service is quite frankly a joke. I've had these types of issues for years with them... I guess we are the fools for continuing to pay for this junk of a product.> @Quicken Anja said:
> Hello All,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to visit the Community and reporting this issue, though I apologize that you are experiencing this.
>
> I have forwarded this thread and the information you posted regarding this problem to the proper channels, and it is being investigated further. In the meantime, if you are experiencing this issue, we ask that you please submit a problem report by navigating to Help > Report a problem. While you will not receive a response through this submission, these reports will help our teams in further investigating the issue. The more problem reports we receive, the better.
>
> We apologize for any inconvenience in the meantime! Thank you.

Inconvenience? That is what you call it when years of financial data is corrupted? This isn't an inconvenience, it > @Amo1 said:
> I just updated to R39.17 today. Upon updating, my historical paycheck information is not correct. What is odd is that the register still shows the correct total amount deposited into my bank account, but when I click "open the split transaction window" (the green checkmark within the register transaction) that amount no longer ties to the register. Again, very odd that the register shows a different amount than the split transaction window. This issue is not only limited to recent paychecks, as when I click on "open the split transaction window" for any of my historical paychecks, they all show the exact same information and $ breakouts, which also do not tie to the register. In addition, my reporting is now not correct either, as it seems to tie to the split transaction data.
>
> Another important piece of information: I did notice that the itemized breakouts exactly tie to the paycheck reminder that I had set up, appearing that Quicken overwrote all of the split transactions with that reminder data. I tried deleting that reminder, but that did not solve the problem. The issue also only appears to have happened for the paychecks that are related to my current employer (which again makes me assume that this has something to do with the paycheck reminder), but since I have been with this employer since 2018, MUCH of my income data is now not correct. My paycheck amounts vary greatly from month to month, so the differences between the register and the split transaction data is quite large.
>
> I make religious file backups, and I opened some random backups from 2018-2021, and the same issue is happening for all of them, which tells me that this is definitely an issue related to the current release R39.17. In addition, I am positive my data was correct two days ago (prior to the update to R39.17), as I ran a report for 2021 and all of the Quicken report data matched my paycheck data.
>
> Has anyone experienced the same problem? I just spent over two and a half hours on the phone with Quicken support and received different feedback from different people, including two supervisors. One of them mentioned that this may have something to do with an issue with taxable categories. I should also mention that they had me go through the process of "validating" the file, and this did not solve the problem. In order to rebuild all of this data manually would take days/weeks, so I am very concerned. Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Same problem here. I believe you are correct in that the reminder changed actual past transactions. I also validated my file and almost had a heart attack when I saw all the "issues". The things that continue to happen with this software are really unbelievable. The suggestion to restore a backup is awful; it would take hours to redo the work - assuming I knew what all needed to be done. The takeaway is that we are paying for software to track our finances that is completely unreliable and the vendor apparently has no intention of changing it. This has been going on for several years.

Gck#

@Jim_Harman I restored a backup file from 3-1-2022 and that > @Jim_Harman said:
> @Gck# Once you have installed R39.23, which fixes this problem going forward, you need to restore a backup from before you installed R39.17. This would be about March 4. See this Announcement
>
> https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7909593/windows-r39-xx-release-us
>
> You will have to re-enter any transactions you entered since then.

I have restored a backup from 3-1-2022 and that cleans up the file to where Register, Net Worth and Account Balances reports are showing the correct balances. I will have to input the data going forward but I'm wondering if the reminder transactions that existed at that time for future transactions could be entered to eliminate some of the manual input effort? Also the same question regarding Investment and other financial institution accounts where usually download activity. Do you know if this would cause problems. Also what about future revisions from Quicken? Thanks for your efforts.

Jim_Harman

Yes, you can accept the Reminders that are waiting in the restored backup.  If you use Bill Pay, either bank or via Quicken, be careful not to re-issue bill pay instructions.

Transaction downloads should work normally, without duplicates.

Hopefully future releases of Quicken will not introduce problems like this.

Gck#

> @Jim_Harman said:
> Yes, you can accept the Reminders that are waiting in the restored backup.  If you use Bill Pay, either bank or via Quicken, be careful not to re-issue bill pay instructions.
>
> Transaction downloads should work normally, without duplicates.
>
> Hopefully future releases of Quicken will not introduce problems like this.

Hopefully back to normal. Thanks to working on this issue.

CountDeMonet2022

I had the same issues with ver. 39.17 as everyone else. All of my split payroll / investment transactions were corrupted; 1000s of them. Very embarrassing for Quicken. Fortunately, I had a current backup data file and was able to download and reinstall 38.30 before it disappeared from their website. Quicken needs to always keep the last one or two versions on the downloads page in case of situations like this and do a better job at QA. It's not possible to roll back to a code base from months ago if the data file has already been updated to a later version. It defeats the whole purpose of making backups if you can't roll back to a compatible version of Quicken! >:)

I did talk to one very knowledgeable tech support guy who explained that the issue was not with Quicken itself, but with the installer falling out of sync during auto-updates. He suggested always doing updates outside of Quicken, and to create a fresh copy of Quicken using the File -> Create a Copy or Template operation. This would supposedly fix any internal settings that may have gone bad over the years. I didn't try that yet, as it involves re-connecting with all the financial institutions.

Furthermore, Quicken released R39.23 on March 12, 2022 to address these issues and similar problems that occur with R39.21. I haven't tried either of those releases. Sticking with R38.30 for now. Too traumatized to update.

See: https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7909593/windows-r39-xx-release-us#latest

jr_ece

CountDeMonet2022 said:

I did talk to one very knowledgeable tech support guy who explained that the issue was not with Quicken itself, but with the installer falling out of sync during auto-updates. He suggested always doing updates outside of Quicken, and to create a fresh copy of Quicken using the File -> Create a Copy or Template operation. This would supposedly fix any internal settings that may have gone bad over the years. I didn't try that yet, as it involves re-connecting with all the financial institutions.

I would do this more often, but as you mentioned reconnecting all financial institutions can take quite awhile with investment accounts at different places, several credit cards, health savings accounts, venmo, paypal, and checking/savings. Seems this could be easier.

mshiggins

CountDeMonet2022 said:

I did talk to one very knowledgeable tech support guy who explained that the issue was not with Quicken itself, but with the installer falling out of sync during auto-updates. 

I am skeptical. 

jr_ece

mshiggins said:

CountDeMonet2022 said:

I did talk to one very knowledgeable tech support guy who explained that the issue was not with Quicken itself, but with the installer falling out of sync during auto-updates. 

I am skeptical. 

Exactly.

Chris_QPW

CountDeMonet2022 said:

I did talk to one very knowledgeable tech support guy who explained that the issue was not with Quicken itself, but with the installer falling out of sync during auto-updates. He suggested always doing updates outside of Quicken, and to create a fresh copy of Quicken using the File -> Create a Copy or Template operation. This would supposedly fix any internal settings that may have gone bad over the years. I didn't try that yet, as it involves re-connecting with all the financial institutions.

Nice guess, but wrong.  The problem can be reproduced using the Mondo patches for updating.   A lot of the SuperUsers here only use the Mondo patches for updating.  I have all the released patches on my website for testing such things out, and especially so that people can get them to recover from problems like this: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/quickenpatches.html

Creating a copy used to be one of the main ways to try to get rid of corruption in data files before they changed it to disconnect all the online services.  The other is Validate and Repair.  But of course, there is now the added trouble of reconnecting everything.  And one should understand why they did this.  Every Quicken data file has a unique Id in it.  It is used to decided what Quicken Cloud dataset to connect to.  The Quicken Cloud dataset contains a lot of information that has to stay in sync with the Quicken Desktop data file.  How much depends on what services you are using.  Some of the major ones are Sync to Mobile/Web, Express Web Connect, and Quicken Bill Manager.

It used to be a common practice before the Quicken Cloud dataset existed that if people wanted to start a new data file, they would just copy there existing data file and work modify that one as if it was a different data file.  The problem here is the unique Id would be the same.  So, now with the Quicken Cloud dataset needing to be in sync with the Quicken data file that causes problems because it might try to sync these two completely different data files.

So, the whole point of the "new copy" is to change the unique Id and break all connections to the Quicken Cloud dataset to make sure the user really has a separate copy.  But of course, in the process they decided the user isn't smart enough to know the different use cases of making a copy that isn't going to be used as a separate/different data file and the copy that is.  And as such they gave only the one that is the "safest".

Note the reason that Copy was used as a way to try to remove corruption is because it does a record-by-record copy, which forces it to read each record and as such there is a bit more making sure each record is valid.  It also has the effect to removing "deleted" records.  Creating new records is a "costly" operation (performance wise), so they normally just mark records deleted, and reused them.

It seems to me that the developers keep their support people in the dark as much as their customers.
Forcing them to try to figure out what is going on, on their own.

We build up a picture what we believe is going on, and sometimes that is correct and sometimes it isn't.  But since we have no feedback from the developers, that is all we can do.

mshiggins

@CountDeMonet2022 love that user name. 

Lloyd Smith

I bit the bullet and contacted support concerning this issue since I have reverted to R38.30, reinstalled a backup from 2/28/22, and continue to have lost all split data between April 2017 and December 2021. I was given instructions to use Quicken's Uninstall Tool
" Uninstall Quicken:
Please, go to this link: https://www.quicken.com/support/using-qcleanui-uninstall-quicken Find the option for First: Download and use QCleanUI Click it and then go to the step number 4 and 5 and download them. Once they are downloaded, please open QCleanUI. You will get a window on your screen and select Clean All to the upper left-hand corner, then click on Clean to the right. Click on YES. You do not need to click the second program you have downloaded, they run at the same time once you click on QCleanUI.
Install Quicken

Go to this link: www.quicken.com/activate and then click on **I'm installing or reinstalling Quicken** click on **Download for Windows** or **Download for Mac**. Wait until it's completely downloaded and then run/open this file. Allow to make changes on your computer and click on **Next > Install**

Intall Mondo Patch R38.30
https://www.quicken.com/support/update-and-patch-20182019-release-quicken-windows-subscription-product"

I also received the following response from Support, "I have instructions from Quicken that a team working on that will get the log files and they will fix the problem. It's from another level of support. I am sorry I do not have an ETA when it will be fixed, but they are working on that now."
So part of the issue has still not been fixed.

Tharris

> @Chris_QPW said:
> Nice guess, but wrong.  The problem can be reproduced using the Mondo patches for updating.   A lot of the SuperUsers here only use the Mondo patches for updating.  I have all the released patches on my website for testing such things out, and especially so that people can get them to recover from problems like this: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/quickenpatches.html
>
> Creating a copy used to be one of the main ways to try to get rid of corruption in data files before they changed it to disconnect all the online services.  The other is Validate and Repair.  But of course, there is now the added trouble of reconnecting everything.  And one should understand why they did this.  Every Quicken data file has a unique Id in it.  It is used to decided what Quicken Cloud dataset to connect to.  The Quicken Cloud dataset contains a lot of information that has to stay in sync with the Quicken Desktop data file.  How much depends on what services you are using.  Some of the major ones are Sync to Mobile/Web, Express Web Connect, and Quicken Bill Manager.
>
> It used to be a common practice before the Quicken Cloud dataset existed that if people wanted to start a new data file, they would just copy there existing data file and work modify that one as if it was a different data file.  The problem here is the unique Id would be the same.  So, now with the Quicken Cloud dataset needing to be in sync with the Quicken data file that causes problems because it might try to sync these two completely different data files.
>
> So, the whole point of the "new copy" is to change the unique Id and break all connections to the Quicken Cloud dataset to make sure the user really has a separate copy.  But of course, in the process they decided the user isn't smart enough to know the different use cases of making a copy that isn't going to be used as a separate/different data file and the copy that is.  And as such they gave only the one that is the "safest".
>
> Note the reason that Copy was used as a way to try to remove corruption is because it does a record-by-record copy, which forces it to read each record and as such there is a bit more making sure each record is valid.  It also has the effect to removing "deleted" records.  Creating new records is a "costly" operation (performance wise), so they normally just mark records deleted, and reused them.
>
> It seems to me that the developers keep their support people in the dark as much as their customers.
> Forcing them to try to figure out what is going on, on their own.
>
> We build up a picture what we believe is going on, and sometimes that is correct and sometimes it isn't.  But since we have no feedback from the developers, that is all we can do.

Thank you for this, QPW. Quick question, does a file backup do the same record-by-record copy as the file copy does? I am wondering if I can use a backup the way I used to use the file copy without losing all my bank connections. I would then just change the backup file type name as many have suggested.

Tim

Roger Miller

.....

Sherlock

Tharris said:

> @Chris_QPW said:
> Nice guess, but wrong.  The problem can be reproduced using the Mondo patches for updating.   A lot of the SuperUsers here only use the Mondo patches for updating.  I have all the released patches on my website for testing such things out, and especially so that people can get them to recover from problems like this: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/quickenpatches.html
>
> Creating a copy used to be one of the main ways to try to get rid of corruption in data files before they changed it to disconnect all the online services.  The other is Validate and Repair.  But of course, there is now the added trouble of reconnecting everything.  And one should understand why they did this.  Every Quicken data file has a unique Id in it.  It is used to decided what Quicken Cloud dataset to connect to.  The Quicken Cloud dataset contains a lot of information that has to stay in sync with the Quicken Desktop data file.  How much depends on what services you are using.  Some of the major ones are Sync to Mobile/Web, Express Web Connect, and Quicken Bill Manager.
>
> It used to be a common practice before the Quicken Cloud dataset existed that if people wanted to start a new data file, they would just copy there existing data file and work modify that one as if it was a different data file.  The problem here is the unique Id would be the same.  So, now with the Quicken Cloud dataset needing to be in sync with the Quicken data file that causes problems because it might try to sync these two completely different data files.
>
> So, the whole point of the "new copy" is to change the unique Id and break all connections to the Quicken Cloud dataset to make sure the user really has a separate copy.  But of course, in the process they decided the user isn't smart enough to know the different use cases of making a copy that isn't going to be used as a separate/different data file and the copy that is.  And as such they gave only the one that is the "safest".
>
> Note the reason that Copy was used as a way to try to remove corruption is because it does a record-by-record copy, which forces it to read each record and as such there is a bit more making sure each record is valid.  It also has the effect to removing "deleted" records.  Creating new records is a "costly" operation (performance wise), so they normally just mark records deleted, and reused them.
>
> It seems to me that the developers keep their support people in the dark as much as their customers.
> Forcing them to try to figure out what is going on, on their own.
>
> We build up a picture what we believe is going on, and sometimes that is correct and sometimes it isn't.  But since we have no feedback from the developers, that is all we can do.

Thank you for this, QPW. Quick question, does a file backup do the same record-by-record copy as the file copy does? I am wondering if I can use a backup the way I used to use the file copy without losing all my bank connections. I would then just change the backup file type name as many have suggested.

Tim

A file backup does not do the same record-by-record copy as the file copy does.

George P

@davidmarketing I found it easier to restore an old backup and redo three weeks worth of updates because I could not get paystubs that were more than a year old.

George P

Is it safe to update to Version R39 R39.23 (Mar, 2022)?

Quite frankly, rolling back software is a mortal sin for most software companies. I have lost confidence in Quicken and I will no longer update software until several weeks after release and first checking here for issues.

Chris_QPW

George P said:

Is it safe to update to Version R39 R39.23 (Mar, 2022)?

R39.23 doesn't have this problem, so it does seem like the release to be on.

I just noticed the announcement has been changed to say that R39.23 is now the official release for everyone (it out of the stagged release/paused mode).

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Concerned User

I updated to R39.23 and I am still experiencing issues. I switched employers back in 2019 and setup my new paychecks in Quicken. I have traced my problems back to this event. Specifically, even with this latest release, my net worth reports do not capture my paycheck deposits made into my checking account. They appear properly in the register and the total net worth on the bottom left of the screen is accurate. But when you click "Net Worth" (bottom left), none of these deposits are being reflected--either in the graph or in the Net Worth Summary Report.

[Removed - Rant/Solicitation]

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Jim_Harman

@Concerned User
When you updated to R39.23, did you also restore a backup from before you installed R39.17 or R39.21? That would be about March 4.

Restoring a backup is a necessary step to repair the damage caused by R39.17 and R39.21. You will need to re-enter any transactions since the backup.

Concerned User

Thanks for attempting to help. My paycheck data, registers, etc. are thankfully intact (and validated), just the net worth reporting is off. Once I successfully migrated to a new PC this month, I removed any legacy backups so restoring old data is not an option for me. My above post was scrubbed, but I don't believe that my data is damaged--it's the software that is broken. I have been experiencing some form of weird net worth fluctuation issues for a good year, not just since the recent updates. But this time I seem to have isolated the root issue (for me).

Jim_Harman

@Concerned User
Please read the earlier posts in this discussion. Any data file you opened while you had R39.17 or R39.21 installed may have been permanently damaged. One symptom of this damage is that your register balances are correct but the Net Worth and Account Balances reports show different balances for the affected accounts.

R39.23 prevents this damage going forward but it does not repair the existing damage. To repair the damage, you need to either to find and correct the damaged splits in the affected Paychecks or restore a backup from before the damage was done. 

Concerned User

Thanks Jim. I scanned the pages prior to my first post, thank you. I can confirm that my payroll data for the last 3 years is corrupted. Register reports are accurate but once I open a paycheck, the final deposited amount gets reduced substantially and then improperly logged in the register.

I am 100% aware of the fix and now I just have to decide how important it is to me to go back and re-enter this info. But I simply cannot recall a previous experience with a software company that released an update that corrupted users' personal data files and, as far as I can tell, made zero outreach to alert its customers of the issue--or any apologies. Even Microsoft's legendary release-it-now, fix-it-later days did not corrupt users' personal data files. Every company has challenges, but the way they handle and communicate can go a long way in rebuilding trust. To me, this situation is not simply a software update gone wrong situation but a reflection of a much bigger systemic cultural issue and is disappointing to say the least.

But I sincerely appreciate your efforts to help, and I wish you and everyone here the best.

Chris_QPW

@Concerned User I think you should consider this in a different light.

What is at stake is more than just those paycheck entries.

What people are seeing is the result, not the cause.  For instance, some people might be seeing just a few months of corrupted paychecks, others years.  In my case I didn't even see them in the register, it wasn't until I ran Validate and Repair did I see the problems.

That is the nature of corrupted data, and the prime reason that they usually can't fix it after it happens. It can actually be "chaotic" and unpredictable.

If one leaves known corruption in their data file, it might come back to bite them at a later time.

Concerned User

Thank you Chris. I'm fully backed up at this stage and I have what I need to migrate out of Quicken and start fresh. The only good thing to come from this situation is now that all my legacy data is technically vulnerable and potentially unreliable, I've already experienced the pain from ripping the band aid off. Just wasn't my choosing.

Chris_QPW

Concerned User said:

Thank you Chris. I'm fully backed up at this stage and I have what I need to migrate out of Quicken and start fresh. The only good thing to come from this situation is now that all my legacy data is technically vulnerable and potentially unreliable, I've already experienced the pain from ripping the band aid off. Just wasn't my choosing.

I'm afraid that was always a possibility, about the only thing that has really changed is that you now realize it is true.  I have seen many posts over the years of paycheck splits going aways, budgets vanishing, and other such problems.  Mostly that can be navigated by carefully selecting what services you don't use, but it isn't anything new.  And that pretty much tells you why there wasn't a big response from Quicken Inc on this problem, as far as letting people know or apologizing from the top.  When something becomes common place, it isn't "big news" anymore.

Jim_Harman

The closest I have seen Quicken come to acknowledging this problem online was the 3/12 post in this discussion:
https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7909593/windows-r39-xx-release-us

The italicized part about the need to restore a backup was only added after some prodding from yours truly.