R42.8-R42.21 - Tags are deleted after One Step Update - might be Mobile SYNC related.

Jim_Harman

mlabjr61 said:

So I followed the procedure and so far so good with the tags. Most of my transactions came back when I did an update. I had to go in and redo all the categories and comments, but better then having to do the whole transaction. One issue I see is all my daily investment data (i.e., security value per day) is missing for the period between the backup and today. Is there anyway to get this back?

You can download historical security prices from the Investing > Portfolio page. Click on Update then Historical prices. If you choose Month, you will get daily prices for the past 30 days. For one to 11 months ago, you will get Friday prices, and before that you will get month-end prices.

Quicken Kathryn

Hello All,
While we've corrected this issue with the recent patch release, we're continuing to investigate root cause to put more robust structures in place, and prevent anything like this from reoccurring.  If you can, please reply to this thread and let us know:

1. Did all of your tags disappear, or only some?
2. Of the tags that disappeared, were they multi-part tags?  Such as "Car: Ferrari"?
3. If only some of your tags disappeared, were these older or newer tags, or was it apparently random?

Thank you all for your patience and help while we research this--

Smokeyham

@Quicken Kathryn,

Thanks for your continued work on this. All of the tags disappeared from my transactions. My tags were not multi-part (i.e. they just looked like "Summer Trip 2022."

austinleslie

all of my tags disappeared. none were multi-part tags.

mlabjr61

> @Jim_Harman said:
> You can download historical security prices from the Investing > Portfolio page. Click on Update then Historical prices. If you choose Month, you will get daily prices for the past 30 days. For one to 11 months ago, you will get Friday prices, and before that you will get month-end prices.

Thanks Jim, but this did not work due to the securities being within my 401K. Does anyone know where this is stored where I could update from the backup files I have?

Jim_Harman

Interesting question.

You can export security prices for an individual security by going to the Security's Detail view Click on More > Edit price history and click on the printer icon. From there you can export in CSV format, but unfortunately the layout is not the same as Quicken expects to see in share price imports. The export format is 
Date, Price, High, Low, Volume

The expected import format is
Symbol, Price, Date

You would have to open the exported data in Excel and reformat it before importing into another file.

Good luck, and please let us know if you find any shortcuts or tricks that make this work smoothly.

mlabjr61

> @Jim_Harman said:
> Interesting question.
>
> You can export security prices for an individual security by going to the Security's Detail view Click on More > Edit price history and click on the printer icon. From there you can export in CSV format, but unfortunately the layout is not the same as Quicken expects to see in share price imports. The export format is 
> Date, Price, High, Low, Volume
>
> The expected import format is
> Symbol, Price, Date
>
> You would have to open the exported data in Excel and reformat it before importing into another file.
>
> Good luck, and please let us know if you find any shortcuts or tricks that make this work smoothly.

I ended up Editing Price History and adding in the missing dates and price. This worked, so thanks for the information. For future knowledge how would I have imported the updated CSV file. I was fine with exporting, updating, but could not find the import option.

Jim_Harman

File > File Import > Import Security Prices from CSV file

dsr212

@Quicken Kathryn said:
> Hello All,
> While we've corrected this issue with the recent patch release, we're continuing to investigate root cause to put more robust structures in place, and prevent anything like this from reoccurring.  If you can, please reply to this thread and let us know:* Did all of your tags disappear, or only some?
> * Of the tags that disappeared, were they multi-part tags?  Such as "Car: Ferrari"?
> * If only some of your tags disappeared, were these older or newer tags, or was it apparently random?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and help while we research this--

I reviewed my list of "current" tags. There is no rhyme or reason for the absence of specific tags. I have some old tags and new tags, but I'm definitely missing over 50% of my tags. RANDOM is my answer.

mlabjr61

> @Quicken Kathryn said:
> Hello All,
> While we've corrected this issue with the recent patch release, we're continuing to investigate root cause to put more robust structures in place, and prevent anything like this from reoccurring.  If you can, please reply to this thread and let us know:* Did all of your tags disappear, or only some?
> * Of the tags that disappeared, were they multi-part tags?  Such as "Car: Ferrari"?
> * If only some of your tags disappeared, were these older or newer tags, or was it apparently random?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and help while we research this--

Only some disappeared. No they were letters and numbers, but no special characters. Seemed random. I have some old ones missing and some brand new ones. Also I've read that some peoples started early July. For me I had them until 7/18. I update daily, but backup about every three days.

janwink4

I have lost all my tags and this goes back to 2016. I have the most recent update R42.21 and it did not fix the problem. Very upset about this.

Ps56k2

janwink4@comcast.net said:

I have lost all my tags and this goes back to 2016. I have the most recent update R42.21 and it did not fix the problem. Very upset about this.

Did you read thru the rest of the instructions… there are about 5 steps - BUT, first - YOU WILL NEED TO RESTORE YOUR QUICKEN QDF DATA FILE 

Smokeyham

> @janwink4@comcast.net said:
> I have lost all my tags and this goes back to 2016. I have the most recent update R42.21 and it did not fix the problem. Very upset about this.

Go back to the last backup file that still had the tags and restore that one. You will have to reenter data from that date forward, but definitely not from 2016.

vbirdg

> @"Quicken Kathryn" said:
> Hello All,
> While we've corrected this issue with the recent patch release, we're continuing to investigate root cause to put more robust structures in place, and prevent anything like this from reoccurring.  If you can, please reply to this thread and let us know:* Did all of your tags disappear, or only some?
> * Of the tags that disappeared, were they multi-part tags?  Such as "Car: Ferrari"?
> * If only some of your tags disappeared, were these older or newer tags, or was it apparently random?
>
> Thank you all for your patience and help while we research this--


Response:
1. Not all deleted, but 80% of tags on transactions were deleted,
2. None of my tags are multi-part.
3. Mostly random, but 100% of the ones entered on the last few years transactions.
4. After the tags on transactions were deleted, I ran a report which notified me that I had "new" tags and did I want them added to the report, so all my tags were automatically restored on the Tag list, but still blank on the transaction.

J_Rapp

@Quicken Kathryn

Response:
I opened by Cloud Sync Log for build 27.1.42.8, and used Notepad++ for investigation.
1. 3113 transactions in total were being synced, to which 2854 had the text <> "tags":[{"id":"0"}] </>, and 208 had the text of this or similar... <> "tags":[{"id":"335987415678552320"}] </>. The very first tag in the cloud sync log had "tags":[{"id":"0"}]
2. None of my tags are multi-part.
3. Mostly ALL new tags were deleted, only the old tags had the 18 char GUIDs.

So you want to know root cause... the root cause is programming error from development, and a lack of regression testing appears non-existent. What we in the community are really interested in @Quicken Kathryn is how in the future will you provide better QUALITY CONTROL when revs to new versions occur. The usages of CLOUD connectivity with One Step Update is not an isolated event as a few friendly super users try to put this under a rug. And the delay to which this has been addressed is sadly quite evident.
Anyone who performed regression testing on Quicken in your internal organization should have caught this and prevented the update from releasing into the public domain, back on July 8-18th or thereabouts. Please update us to what your organization will be doing in the future please, as well as if you happen to have knowledge of this problem still lingering in any way, shape, or form.

mlabjr61

> @J_Rapp said:
> @Quicken Kathryn
>
> Response:
> I opened by Cloud Sync Log for build 27.1.42.8, and used Notepad++ for investigation.
> 1. 3113 transactions in total were being synced, to which 2854 had the text <> "tags":[{"id":"0"}] </>, and 208 had the text of this or similar... <> "tags":[{"id":"335987415678552320"}] </>. The very first tag in the cloud sync log had "tags":[{"id":"0"}]
> 2. None of my tags are multi-part.
> 3. Mostly ALL new tags were deleted, only the old tags had the 18 char GUIDs.
>
> So you want to know root cause... the root cause is programming error from development, and a lack of regression testing appears non-existent. What we in the community are really interested in @Quicken Kathryn is how in the future will you provide better QUALITY CONTROL when revs to new versions occur. The usages of CLOUD connectivity with One Step Update is not an isolated event as a few friendly super users try to put this under a rug. And the delay to which this has been addressed is sadly quite evident.
> Anyone who performed regression testing on Quicken in your internal organization should have caught this and prevented the update from releasing into the public domain, back on July 8-18th or thereabouts. Please update us to what your organization will be doing in the future please, as well as if you happen to have knowledge of this problem still lingering in any way, shape, or form.

I use to work for a test group for a large computer company. This would be classified as a "Test Escape". Data integrity issues are the worse kind of problem to ever release and heads would roll if any of these ever got to a customer. It was bad enough internally for development to even let one get to Test, never mind get past Test to a customer. I also remember that this is not the first time I've had to go back and piece together my data from prior backups. PLEASE FIX YOUR TEST RELEASE PROCESS!

dsr212

@mlabrj61 - Excellent comment. Aside from poor internal processes at Quicken, the lack of communication to their customer base is alarming. I've all but stopped using Quicken until they issue a FORMAL set of instructions versus some patchwork repair with very little confidence. Presently, I've lost all confidence with the software application.

TheBobster

Was this ever fixed? I just noticed my tags are gone. I have historical backups on the cloud. When did this begin? I want to pick a backup that was made before the tags disappeared.

Jim_Harman

This issue has reportedly been fixed in QWin R42.21, but in a message on Aug. 3 above, @Quicken Kathryn requested additional information about the issue. 

The following procedure should restore your transactions with deleted Tags.
You will need to restore a backup from before you installed R42.8. 

If you have been entering new transactions into a file with deleted Tags and you want to re-create them in an undamaged file, I suggest that before restoring the backup, you print a report that shows all the transactions you have entered since the problem occurred, in case you need to re-enter them.

To do this, you should 

1. update to R42.21 or newer if you have not already.
   The newer versions fix this problem going forward,
   but they do not repair the damage already caused by R42.8 or R42.19.

2. Then print a report that shows all the transactions you have entered since the problem occurred, in case you need to re-enter them. To do this, 

1. go to Reports > Banking transactions. Set the Date range to Custom and set the starting date to 7/1/2022. Choose Subtotal by Account. 

2. Click the Customize gear at the top right of the report and check the Show splits box. 

3. Under Show Columns, you can un-check the Tax item box to make the report narrower. 

4. Click OK to display the report. Adjust the column widths if necessary, then print the report.

3. Back up your current data file in case you want to return to it.
   

4. Restore a backup from before you installed R42.8. This would be early in July. To find a backup from before the Tags were deleted, look in the BACKUP folder inside the same folder where your Quicken data file is stored. Normally this folder would be Documents\Quicken\BACKUP. There should be a file with a name like <your data file name>-R-41.19-<date you upgraded to R42.XX>.QDF-backup

5. Verify that the problem is no longer present in the restored backup.If the problem is still present in the restored backup, you have a different problem. You should return to your newer file and investigate further.

6. If the problem is not present in the restored backup, you will keep the restored backup and re-enter any transactions you entered since then. 

1. Accept Reminders as you normally would. Be careful when accepting Bill Pay reminders to avoid double payments. 

2. Go to Edit > Preferences > Mobile & Web and Reset your Cloud Data

3. Log out of the mobile app and back in again.

7. After completing these steps, you should be able to download transactions and accept them as you normally would. Compare the transactions in your registers to those in the report you printed earlier and enter or update anything that is missing.

8. You can download missing security prices from the Investing > Portfolio page. Click on Update then Historical prices. If you choose Month, you will get daily prices for the past 30 days. For one to 12 months ago, you will get Friday prices, and before that you will get month-end prices.

TheBobster

This was very helpful. A lot of work, but helpful.

rbknox

@Jim_Harman, your "how to" is helpful - thanks for this.  However, I found that I needed to choose a backup that preceded my update to R41.19.   I am wondering if perhaps I restored a backup somewhere in there that messed things further.   BTW, your "how to" references R42.9 (vs R42.8) - a typo?  Or are there different versions for different editions?  I am Premier.   Thanks

Jim_Harman

Thanks, you are right, I corrected it to 42.8

rbknox

mlabjr61 et al regarding Quicken quality control and cloud sync development problems.  As pointed out, the missing tags issue is only the latest related to Cloud sync.  I am still grappling with Paycheck problems:  internal transfers from paychecks, forecasted totals on paychecks, and repeating entries within paychecks; also repeating entries in other scheduled reminders - all related I believe in some way to corruption caused by cloud syncing. 

I think the issue therefore is bigger than quality control and release testing -- the problem is that the Quicken data file (our data file - the single source of truth) is not being held sacred by Quicken.  I am finding it very hard to understand how the folks at Quicken can continue to propagate features development that doesn't consider first and foremost that above all else, the customer's data file (the one on the PC) cannot be messed with!   I mean, reconciled transactions, transactions we should consider to be immutable, can be systematically modified and corrupted by a Quicken process!  It is really beyond comprehension.

This little tag problem -- which I still have not fixed -- at a minimum involves manual re-entry or review of over 250 transactions in my data file that have been added since early July.  And that's just the repair process - in fact, hundreds, maybe thousands of transactions were modified by having their tags removed.  Why do I want to use a personal finance product that puts in jeopardy, on a regular and random basis, data I rely on.

I understand that creating a copy of our data in the cloud provides options for enhancements.  But I don't understand why anything but basic transactional entries (eg. I add a deposit entry on my mobile app) could be allowed to change the master record (the one on the PC!).  To my mind, this is a fundamental design flaw.  Maybe the syncing process should keep track of changes and allow for a rollback when corruption problems are detected.  Wouldn't that be a useful new "feature"?

So, while we're at it, I personally derive very little benefit from syncing my data to the cloud.  I don't use the mobile app for anything significant.  I suspect Bill Pay and some other things now rely on cloud sync - but - they don't work reliably either!  What's the benefit of a bill pay reminder system that fails to remind you / is broken half the time?   Frankly, I would be very happy just to have the basic functions of Quicken and no cloud sync.   Can I do this?  If I turn off the cloud sync, does the app let me reliably continue on my way? When I tried this previously it created other problems and annoyances.   Maybe this should be a more clearly delineated option in Quicken. For me, that would make Quicken life a whole lot easier. 

seanmccafferty

I would hope this problem with 'disappearing TAGs' would make it to the top of your support queue -- there are lots and lots of requests to fix the disappearing TAGs problem and in the meantime I am betting that most users are afraid to do a backup because if they have to restore from a previous backup they are likely to lose all of their TAGs in the process. I received an update to the 'Starter' version in the last week, which Quicken which stated it was fixing the disappearing TAGs problem. I applied the update , did a backup and restore to test it out ...... the TAGs were gone. Please address this issue quickly. Thanks.

Jim_Harman

@seanmccafferty, what was the date of the backup you restored? Following the step by step instructions I posted above on Aug. 9, you will need to restore a backup you made before you installed R42.8, which would be early in July.

Also please note that support for Tags in the Starter edition is spotty at best. In general, if you had a higher version at one time and saved reports that used Tags, they are still usable, but if you are running Starter you can't create new reports that use Tags.

rbknox

@seanmccafferty:  as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I had to restore prior to R41.19 to resolve the tags issue.  I recommend reviewing tags to make sure you've got a version where tags are working.

Ralph Knox said:

@Jim_Harman, your "how to" is helpful - thanks for this.  However, I found that I needed to choose a backup that preceded my update to R41.19.   I am wondering if perhaps I restored a backup somewhere in there that messed things further.   BTW, your "how to" references R42.9 (vs R42.8) - a typo?  Or are there different versions for different editions?  I am Premier.   Thanks

rbknox

Update:  I have successfully repaired my tag problems now, having restored a backup just prior to the R41.19 update, and after verifying all the historical tags were present, re-entered transactions from early July of this year forward.   While doing this, I also took the opportunity to rebuild broken paycheck entries (separate problem detailed here).  I have also decided to turn off mobile sync.  It seems doing this now does not impact other functionality and I have been stable now for over 2 weeks with no sync.  Online bill pay, such as it is, and regular transaction downloads are unaffected by sync turned off.  This is going to be by operating mode going forward, given the number of sync related issues in the last couple years.

CS123

The tags in my memorized transactions have disappeared. This is a real pain! How happened and how can I get them back? I see that I am not the only one and it is a recent thing.

splasher

Were your Memorized Payee transactions "locked"?

rbknox

@CS123:  I don't have specific experience with tags and memorized transactions.  But likely it is part of the same problem -- that there was a bug that removed tags from many transactions.  I would suggest following Jim Harman's procedure above.  This worked for me - except that I needed to go back to an even earlier backup that was prior to R41.19 (possibly because I had restored another backup somewhere along the way).