Perpetual license vs. subscription

StevePilon

Is there a way to purchase a perpetual license for Quicken, rather than use subscription model?

Frankx

Hi @StevePilon,

No.  Quicken doesn't offer a perpetual license.  I suppose that is because it is a consumer / retail program.  You'll need to renew your subscription every year (although from time to time I believe that they offer subscriptions that may run longer than a year, but none are perpetual.

Frankx 

Frankx

Hi @StevePilon,

No.  Quicken doesn't offer a perpetual license.  I suppose that is because it is a consumer / retail program.  You'll need to renew your subscription every year (although from time to time I believe that they offer subscriptions that may run longer than a year, but none are perpetual.

Frankx 

StevePilon

This is unfortunate, most subscription-based software also offers a perpetual license option... anyhow, thank you for your prompt response.

Chris_QPW

The "perpetual license" for Quicken would only be useful to people that aren't going be using any online services.
And if one falls into that category, I suggest that they never go past Quicken 2013 which is the last version of that doesn't have any kind of online login to register and such.

Boatnmaniac

It should be noted that if one does not renew the subscription after the 1st year, Quicken Deluxe, Premier and Home & Business may continue to be used manually (no online services such as version updates, transactions downloads, etc.) for as long as your system supports it.  All non-online features should still be fully functional.  But note that there will be a banner taking up about 25% of the screen reminding you to resubscribe and that cannot be removed without resubscribing.    So, it is a perpetual license with some limitations after the subscription expires.

Quicken Starter will become read-only if the subscription is not renewed.

allen_car

A few years ago you could buy a version and you could download transactions and quotes for 3 years. But they stopped providing that option a few years ago; they got greedy. Now you have to buy a new license every year. The Amazon, Sam's, or Costco is always cheeper than direct from Quicken.

I have been using Quicken Premier for over 20 years and rarely does a new version have any features I want. I would be happy with the version from 10 years ago if it did not have any bugs. I never use any of the bill pay or mobile stuff.

Boatnmaniac

allen_car said:

A few years ago you could buy a version and you could download transactions and quotes for 3 years. But they stopped providing that option a few years ago; they got greedy. Now you have to buy a new license every year.

A few years ago (prior to subscription) Quicken was on the verge of going down the same path as MS Money (which MS shut down in 2010 because it was not profitable).  Intuit spun off Quicken instead of shutting it down and the new owners implemented subscription so the company could survive.  That's not greed.  That's doing what needs to be done to become profitable and stay in business.

jacobs

@allen_car All they really changed was the time period of the subscription; it used to be essentially a three-year subscription, and now it's one year at a time. And yes, the price per year then went up a lot. But they had to generate enough revenue to pay back the investors who bought the company from Intuit, and to invest in things Intuit had neglected. And financial institutions accelerated changes to standards to try to make online banking more secure. And they built a new web-only product, Simplifi, to appeal to a younger client base that conducts all their financial work online.

You can say Quicken got greedy, but it's worth noting that other software products in the personal finance space also raised their rates to keep up with changing technologies. In the end, as Boatnmaniac says, they needed to generate enough revenue to be profitable and survive. You'll drive yourself crazy comparing today's prices to these of yesteryear; instead, you just need to decide if the cost of Quicken is worth it to you or not. To me, it's worth about $5/month. If you determine it's not, and you can find something that is, then it's time to move on.

StevePilon

Thank you all for your answers and valuable input!

GeorgSchmid

Dear International Quicken Users

there is no permanent subscription, even if you live abroad, do everything manually, and do not need any of the Quicken online services.
At purchase they will tell you, that you do will not need to renew and will be able to manually continue to work on your files.
In reality what will happen, once you do not renew, is that they will populate HALF of your screen with UGLY renewal alerts.

Very dishonest and international customers should be warned that they will be bullied into renewing, despite the first sales pitch hiding this fact.

Very sneaky, Quicken management. Shame on you.

Boatnmaniac

GeorgSchmid said:

Dear International Quicken Users

there is no permanent subscription, even if you live abroad, do everything manually, and do not need any of the Quicken online services.
At purchase they will tell you, that you do will not need to renew and will be able to manually continue to work on your files.
In reality what will happen, once you do not renew, is that they will populate HALF of your screen with UGLY renewal alerts.

Very dishonest and international customers should be warned that they will be bullied into renewing, despite the first sales pitch hiding this fact.

Very sneaky, Quicken management. Shame on you.

The subscription renewal banner/alerts (what others have posted, it takes up more like 20%-30% of the screen, not 50%) affects everyone who does not resubscribe, not just international users. 

And, like you, many users really dislike it that the banner/alerts cannot be removed without renewing the subscription.  But it also needs to be noted that those banners/alerts, while they can be a nuisance, do not prevent one from being able to continue using Quicken manually after the subscription expires (unless you have Starter edition in which case Quicken will become read only).

It also needs to be noted that most software subscriptions will entirely cease to function when the subscription expires.  Quicken allowing their software to continue being used manually after the subscription expires is not the normal practice of most subscription software companies.

So, Quicken has not been untruthful about users being able to continue using the software post-subscription expiration.  But I do agree that Quicken could/should be more up front about the banner/alerts situation when subscriptions are allowed to expire.  

Loyal User

I don't mind paying a subscription fee for a service I use. I do bristle at the notion that new users should be offered a lower monthly rate than those of us who have been using and supporting Quicken for decades. When did it become good business practice to "punish" loyal customers? Would it not make more sense to reward those who have stuck with Quicken through thick and thin, good releases and lousy releases, quirks and bugs?

Come on Quicken show some loyalty to those who have remained loyal to you!

Boatnmaniac

Loyal User said:

I don't mind paying a subscription fee for a service I use. I do bristle at the notion that new users should be offered a lower monthly rate than those of us who have been using and supporting Quicken for decades. When did it become good business practice to "punish" loyal customers? Would it not make more sense to reward those who have stuck with Quicken through thick and thin, good releases and lousy releases, quirks and bugs?

Come on Quicken show some loyalty to those who have remained loyal to you!

Kind of reminds me of promo pricing offered only to new customers by cable, cell phone, telephone, internet, dish and streaming companies along with some other service companies like auto repair shops.  Quicken is not alone in this practice.

But if you shop around you will occasionally find some discount pricing for existing customers being offered for Quicken from various Retailers and...yes...from Quicken.com, as well.  They are just not as common. 

But the important thing is to make sure you do not have Quicken set to automatically renew because if you do have it set to automatically renew you will get charged what the full price is at that time.  Instead, when you get within 6 months of your subscription expiration start shopping.  When you find a nice discount, snap it up and you can then use it to extend your subscription. 

jacobs

@“Loyal User” I hear you, but you have to know that they aren’t going to lower their price for their entire user base, right? So what you are advocating is basically that new users pay a higher-price than existing users, so existing users can feel better about getting a lower price than newbies? I don’t know if I can think of other businesses which use this pricing model; can you?

I’d argue that the more users Quicken can attract, the more resources they have to improve the software, keep price increases down, and survive for a long-term future. So if they sell a new users at a big discount – heck, even if they gave it away for the first year – that helps their business, and therefore indirectly helps us longtime users, doesn’t it?

richard forman

Quicken's Terms of Service explicitly says you will always have full use of your data after your subscription runs out. The Box (20% or more) obscures oart of the screen and since it's frequently necessary to see one side or the other, to recincile, or to Find a particular transaction, it adds time, extra steps, and the enhanced possibility of errors.It's a nuisance designed to doerce renewals. If anyone is interested in a class action leading to an injunction and possible damages, It's not a question of greed or profitability. It's keeping your promise.

Boatnmaniac

richard forman said:

Quicken's Terms of Service explicitly says you will always have full use of your data after your subscription runs out. The Box (20% or more) obscures oart of the screen and since it's frequently necessary to see one side or the other, to recincile, or to Find a particular transaction, it adds time, extra steps, and the enhanced possibility of errors.It's a nuisance designed to doerce renewals. If anyone is interested in a class action leading to an injunction and possible damages, It's not a question of greed or profitability. It's keeping your promise.

Out of curiosity, how does taking more time to use and potentially making some errors mean you do not still have full use of your data?

I personally am really glad to see that Quicken allows us to use the software at all once the subscription has expired.  Most subscription softwares (think MS, Adobe, anti-malware, etc.) cease to function entirely once the subscription expires.  Quicken could have taken the same stance but they did not.  I do think that if anyone would start a class action lawsuit regarding this (first off, IMO I don't think any lawyer would touch it) then we'd better be prepared for Quicken to change their terms to be just like those other companies and Quicken would cease to function one the subscription expires.

jacobs

richard forman said:

Quicken's Terms of Service explicitly says you will always have full use of your data after your subscription runs out.

@richard forman I think talking about a class action suit is baseless. Here's why…

Although it may be a minor semantic issue, let me note that Quicken's wording is not "full use" but "access"; here is their Data Access Guarantee: "Our Data Access Guarantee ensures that you will always be able to have access to your transaction data even after your Membership ends."

And you do! You can view registers, generate and print reports, and export data — you indeed have full access to your data.

Quicken doesn't promise that you will have ongoing access to the full user interface of the program without limitation; it doesn't promise that you will be able to use all the conveniences and tools within the program. It only promises you have full access to your data, including the ability to manually enter new transactions: "Using manual data entry, you will be able to add new transactions and accounts to your data files. You will also be able to access, view, and export your financial data using currently supported formats and file types."

And, they promise that "We’ll continue to let you know about our latest enhancements within the Quicken product." That's a cleverly-worded way of saying they will take part of the screen to urge you to renew to gain/regain features. And, if you go to Quicken's support page about the Data Access Guarantee, they do show images of how they will show such messaging within Quicken:



You wrote: "It's a nuisance designed to coerce renewals." Yes, it more certainly is. If most people opted out of a subscription, Quicken would quickly go out of business. Their business model is a continual revenue stream from subscriptions, allowing them to continue to provide customer support, and to have programmers to modernize, fix, and add features to their software. That model is based on two driving forces: the company's need for ongoing revenue from subscriptions, and users' need to feel they get enough value from using their software that they will continue their subscriptions.

If you choose not to continue to subscribe to Quicken, you continue to "have access to your transaction data". They do deliver on that promise, while making the user experience more annoying in an effort to encourage you to re-subscribe. 

richard forman

There are two paragraphs concerning, “Quicken Data Access Guarantee. The first grants the right, the second explains it further.
"When your Membership ends certain features will no longer be available. These may include, without limitation, features such as download, data sync, mobile sync, quotes, and any other Products and Services that require online access or are provided by a third party (including our Suppliers).
Our Data Access Guarantee ensures that you will always be able to have access to your transaction data even after your Membership ends. Using manual data entry, you will be able to add new transactions and accounts to your data.”
The first states what you'll lose, none of which refers to screen obscuration, only "Online Access" and "third party".
Quicken offered this Guarantee to get our business. It took what it believed to be a good business risk. It's not true they would go out of business if everyone opted out; they would still be able to upgrade the software and sell the upgrades, as many other software firms do. They want to maximize their returns. Good for them. They want to ignore the rights they offered. Bad on them.
Where did they get the right to take over part of my screen, "Forever"? Where is that right in any of their Terms?
Could they not decide tomorrow to take over 50%, or give "Access" for 30 minutes every hour, or day, or week or month?
Who gave them the right to annoy? Or create a nuisance? Deliberate annoyance has consequences. Nuisances should be abated. It doesn't matter if the annoyance or the nuisance is not huge; it should not exist in any form.
I believe no Judge would rule they have any of these rights.
I'm a real person. [Removed-Privacy]. If there are other people who have been affected by these tactics, I would be happy to interact with them to work out a way to gain relief.

jacobs

richard forman said:

The first states what you'll lose, none of which refers to screen obscuration, only "Online Access" and "third party".

Read it again:

"When your Membership ends certain features will no longer be available. These may include, without limitation, features such as …"

That statement doesn't say "the only limitation you will face is xxx".

richard forman said:

Where did they get the right to take over part of my screen, "Forever"? Where is that right in any of their Terms?

If they redesign the user interface — remove the sidebar, put graphs on the right side of the register, or anything — it's their right to do so. They don't specify in their terms how the program will look or function. No software developer does. They can change whatever they want, as long as they fulfill their promise to give you access to your data, and allow you to enter new transactions manually. 

richard forman said:

Could they not decide tomorrow to take over 50%, or give "Access" for 30 minutes every hour, or day, or week or month?

No, they could not limit access to 30 minutes a month, because their promise is "you will always be able to have access to your transaction data." Always means always.


Look, I get it that you don't like their tactic for trying to keep people as subscribers. Personally, I think they could accomplish as much with something less obtrusive, or perhaps differently obtrusive (for instance, making you watch a 15-second video commercial every 5th time you launch the program). But thousands of words have been written about their approach since it went into effect 5+ years ago, and Quicken has chosen not to remove, change or tweak their approach. They know it annoys people, and that some will re-subscribe, some will use it with the intrusion, and some will move on to other software products. They believe it's effective at retaining the largest number of subscribers —and they have data which shows them how many people renew, how many people continue using it manually, and how many stop using Quicken. 

I'd note that Quicken's original stated plan for subscriptions was that lapsed subscriptions would become read-only. They listened to user outcry, and came back with this approach which allows users to continue to use the program indefinitely at no cost, but with the "penalty" of a persistent window seeking renewal. Would you be satisfied if they reverted to the original approach, where you'd be able to access your existing data, but not add anything new? Or would you be satisfied if they followed the approach of other software developers, like Adobe, where you lose access to your files completely once your subscription expires? I don't think so. 

You may be annoyed, but it isn't illegal. They have fulfilled their promise to give you access to your data. They never promised to give you full access to the complete functionality of the program as a non-subscriber. I think if you spoke with a lawyer who examined the screenshots and the legal wording of the license agreement, you'll find that there is no basis to "gain relief".

richard forman

I think there is no purpose in any further discussion with you. You concede these boxes and banners are annoying, obtrusive, and a cooercive nuisance. I believe nobody has the right, or can reserve the right, to ring your doorbell at midnight, call you incessantly in order to harrass you, or take up part of your screen requiring you to scroll back and fortgh to see your data*. You didn't take issue with my assertion there is nothing, in your terms of reference, to stop them from taking over half or more of the screen. Your defense of Quicken's practices is stronger than I woud expect from someone who has no agenda. Do you, I ask you directly, do you have any connection with Quicken, other than that as a subscriber? I ask this because you sound very much the same as if you were Quicken Customer Service.
I have spoken to a lawyer. The advice I have gotten is that this practice is clearly illegal and can be enjoined as well as being made a subject for damages. I expect I'll leave the question of the proper parsing of the Terms, and the conduct I complain of, to the Courts.

*I receive emails from Quicken urging me to subscribe. I find nothing objectionable with that approach. I can "unsubscribe" whenever I please.

jacobs

Do you, I ask you directly, do you have any connection with Quicken, other than that as a subscriber?

No. I'm a fellow Quicken user. I've used Quicken Mac for three decades. When the program almost died under Intuit's mismanagement more than a decade ago, I looked at some alternatives but wished that Quicken Mac would get a second life, because I hoped to continue using it for a long time. That's what got me involved in beta testing and in participating in this forum helping fellow Quicken users. And I'm still hoping Quicken will continue to advance, improve, and continually modernize so I can use it as long as I need a personal finance program. That's my only vested interest in Quicken.

I believe nobody has the right, or can reserve the right, to ring your doorbell at midnight, call you incessantly in order to harrass you…

Yes, harassment can be a crime.

…or take up part of your screen requiring you to scroll back and forth to see your data.

I think you've made a big, and incorrect, leap there. No one is forcing you to use Quicken; you're using it because you have decided you want to. It's completely different than someone coming to your home or harrassing you with phone calls.

Further you agreed to Quicken's End User License Agreement, which I believe gives them the right to do what they have. In fact, I think they could, if they wanted, make it such that you can't use Quicken other than to access your existing data — and that's only because they guaranteed users would have ongoing access to their data.

I have spoken to a lawyer. The advice I have gotten is that this practice is clearly illegal and can be enjoined as well as being made a subject for damages. I expect I'll leave the question of the proper parsing of the Terms, and the conduct I complain of, to the Courts.

I suspect that the lawyer doesn't have all the facts, but if you want to pursue this legally, that's of course your right. And if you find a lawyer who digs into the details and is truly willing to pursue legal action, go for it. Nothing has happened with this issue on the legal front in the 5+ years since Quicken has been sold on a subscription basis, but maybe you'll be the first.

Quicken Jasmine

Hello All,

This post has deteriorated, become argumentative, and is now closed for further discussion.

Thank you!