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FBAR Report Improvements Needed

JHawk1984

In my understanding the FBAR requires reporting the highest dollar amount in each foreign account during the previous year. This foreign currency should be expressed as dollars using the exchange rate on December 31 of that year. Complete account numbers, bank name, and address are also required. All of that information is available in my account details but does not show on the FBAR report. I found this new report very much lacking in details and accuracy. I would hope that this would be corrected before the next filing deadline, and please show the full account number, not just the account name from Quicken. If converting to end of year dollars is too hard to program, then at least include a link to the IRS page for the conversion of currency calculator.

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Investment Reports

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Comments

q_lurker

As I understand it, Quicken US enabled for multi-currency only maintains one currency conversion rate - the current or latest one. Thus, the database would not have the Fed-approved conversion available to it.

I assume you have put the address information in the Comments area of the Account details, as I do not see actual fields identified for address information. Including the account number and FI name seem like very reasonable requests.

Rock Chalk

Chris_QPW

Not only does Quicken Windows US not have a currency exchange rate history (Quicken Windows Canadian does though), but there is also no guarantee that the one it would pick up (if it even picks up the last one in December) that it would be the "official one".

Quicken Jasmine

Hello @JHawk1984,

Thank you for taking the time to reach out to the Community with your request.

I went ahead and changed your post to an Idea so other users who have the same or a similar request can vote on your idea by clicking the up arrow (see below).

Ideas are also reviewed by our Development and Product teams in order to improve Quicken and implement new features requested by customers.

Thanks!

I don't have the Premier version to test this unfortunately, but I am very familiar with FBAR as I have been filing them for 20 years, using my self created spreadsheet.

Assuming that Quicken's FBAR report correctly identifies the highest balance during the year, then it is only a matter of a minute to enter rest of the information in the OP manually or copy/paste. A low effort task.

Challenges: The official "final" currency rate of Dec 31 is typically not published until sometime in January. Then often there are revisions after that depending on the currency - perhaps late February. Finally the official website that provides the currency rate as well as its format has changed many times in the past many years. These challenges put Quicken on the hook to ensure accuracy of revised online data.

My personal preference is to do that work myself to ensure accuracy. Nevertheless I'll up vote it in case someday I use the Premier version.

Quicken Jasmine

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20487025#Comment_20487025

Thanks for sharing!

BBG

The Quicken FBAR report is not accurate to be polite.

Accurate FBAR max values need to be derived by inspection using registers, sorts, and visual inspection of graphs to get them right. The FBAR report is sadly comical in what it missed in my accounts.

Jim_Harman

@BBG Please be more specific about what you are seeing as inaccurate in the FBAR report. Quicken can't make improvements unless they know what is wrong.

BBG

FBAR requires reporting the highest balance an account reached at any time during the year.

eg transfer in → unusually high balance→ transfer out.

That unusually high balance is, AFAIK, the FBAR number. While current FBAR resources suggest good faith amounts are enough, Quicken 'sees' every transfer and thus should report the highest value, not just the highest closing value on a day. that is what it appears to do.

I have an account that Quicken FBAR reports as say $100K, a closing value on a day. That account hits say $1,000K during a day of transfers and that $1,000K is documented as a line item on the routine account statement. If ever audited I suspect the people at Treasury or the IRS would want to see the statements and expect the FBAR report and statements to match.

Jim_Harman

@BBG Can you cite an authoritative reference that says the FBAR report must include intraday balances rather than the closing balance for each day? Google AI says daily closing balances are sufficient, but neither Google nor I are tax advisors. You should consult your tax advisor. My prompt was

fbar report intraday vs closing balances calculation

BBG

The Q: do fbar highest balances include intraday transfers

The caveat. AI is far from an authoritative source but How do you interpret 'at any time during the year?'

Arguable but on balance, safe or sorry?

Jim_Harman

This appears to be a gray area. The AI response I got says

For FBAR (FinCEN Form 114) reporting, you must report the maximum value of each foreign account during the calendar year. The IRS generally allows the use of closing (end-of-day) balances from periodic statements to determine this maximum, rather than requiring tracking of intraday fluctuations. Key Differences and Rules

Intraday Balances: These (intra-day peaks, spikes, or dips) are generally not required to be reported. The burden of tracking every single transaction within a day is considered unreasonable.
Closing/End-of-Day Balances: You should look at your statements to find the highest end-of-day balance reported during the year.
Methodology: The maximum value is a "reasonable approximation" of the highest value of assets in the account. If you transfer funds, the amount is still counted toward the maximum value of the account during that period.
Currency Conversion: Determine the maximum value in the local currency, then convert to U.S. dollars using the Treasury Bureau of the Fiscal Service exchange rate for December 31st of the reporting year.
Record Keeping: While you can rely on periodic statements, if you know of a higher value (e.g., from a transaction log), it is best to use that to ensure accuracy.

My understanding of this report is that it does not affect your taxes, it is used to identify people who have large or perhaps suspicious foreign accounts. Thus it does not hurt to report the higher intraday balances, but perhaps you are not required to jump through hoops to calculate them. Including intraday values would mean that the result would depend on the order the transactions were entered, and for investing accounts maybe the high price of each security each day rather then the closing price.

If you are concerned about this you should definitely consult a tax attorney who specializes in this area. Please let us know what you learn.

BBG

A point is Quicken could and thus should do the most rigorous report, not just what is acceptable. It seems extra code is required to determine ends of days than just analysing every line for the highest value, but that is a technical detail.

I do not live in the US and have been working with a tax attorney for the past year and learned many things 'tax and treasury' a US resident would never encounter. We can probably leave this.

@Jim_Harman

@BBG is correct. FBAR requires highest balance at any given time. Been doing it for 20+ years. I was an expat and the corporate accountants as well as tax attorneys who at the time did my taxes made that very clear to me that there is no gray area. They said highest balance at any given second period.

Now, one can get into that intra-day argument with the treasury if ever questioned and they will probably not penalize you if not drastic and a one time mistake (maybe, hopefully?), but the correct approach is to report the highest. It's all about moving money legally and reporting them accordingly. It used to have a $50K penalty and other consequences! Don't know what it is now.

I don't have the Premier so I cannot test it nor would I ever trust it. I track mine on a spreadsheet line by line using excel formulas and then I eyeball them to ensure everything is correct.

Quicken Anja

Hello All,

This Idea seems to have stalled, and we would like to gauge the current interest in this request. Please vote if you have not done so already!

Thank you!

BBG

Interesting Quicken wants a vote on something Quicken does incorrectly. While the chances of anyone ever being prosecuted for the Quicken error, if used for FBARs, is probably inconsequential. Fobbing off the error to a vote rather than fixing it, that is probably trivial to do and test as compared to how it currently and incorrectly operates, priceless. How many Quicken users have to file FBARs? Those who do not would care less about this. For the few who do?