Combine deposits to one (enhancement idea)

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bob2021
bob2021 Member ✭✭

Assuming there are others who would benefit:

WHAT:

  • Combine multiple deposit transactions into one transaction, creating one split (line) per original deposits, including category and/or tag per split (line), when present in the original.
  • You have multiple repeating deposits in a checking account for, say, utility bills, a portion of them owed you by another household member, who sometimes (not always) pay for more than one bill with a single check.

BENEFIT: Make it unnecessary to: modify one of the deposit transactions; add other split(s) (and categories/tags); and then delete the deposit transactions that you've 'moved' into the combined one.

HOW: Select the multiple deposits; choose: Transactions > Merge Transactions (that menu item would need to be added by developers).

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  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 27
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    I'm not sure I understand the idea of combining multiple deposits into one. The transactions in Quicken should mirror what happens in the real world — so if there are multiple deposits into your checking account, you need multiple transactions in Quicken in order to be able to reconcile your Quicken account to your bank statement. And if a single payment is a reimbursement for several expenses, that should be entered as a single deposit with multiple split lines.

    You have multiple repeating deposits in a checking account for, say, utility bills, a portion of them owed you by another household member, who sometimes (not always) pay for more than one bill with a single check.

    If you have recurring payments which cover reimbursement for several expenses, I would create a scheduled transaction for such a deposit with the typical splits and either the standard amounts (if they're usually the same), or no amounts. When you receive a check paying for several things you're owed for, mark the deposit transaction paid, and update the amounts if needed.

    Another thing you can do if you need to track outstanding amounts owed to you for shared expenses, you could create an asset account. When you incur the expense, such as a utility bill, you'd record the payment from your checking account, with a split between your utility expense and a transfer to the asset account for what you are owed. Then when you get repaid, you'd record that as a deposit in checking with the category being a transfer to the asset account, which reduces the amount you are owed.

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    Combine multiple deposit transactions into one transaction,

    Am I correct to assume that you are talking about multiple manually entered transactions that you then want to match to one downloaded transaction?

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  • bob2021
    bob2021 Member ✭✭
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    Thanks for taking the time to reply.

    The multiple deposits initially exist because they are recurring transactions, but for this situation, as I wrote, one check sometimes arrives to pay (portions) of multiple bills; and as you wrote, this means a single payment is a reimbursement of several expenses and should be entered as a single deposit with multiple split lines. The latter is indeed what I am after; it's simply that this fact was not known in advance. Merging multiple deposits into one, with split lines (and categories/tags, as applicable) solves the problem. I am just after a mechanism that will allow me to do that in one action, rather than multiple actions.

    I do not have recurring payments which cover reimbursement for several expenses; that is an unanticipated situation.

    Thanks for the asset account idea. It would be useful for some, but is much more than I need.

    The idea for merging multiple transactions is inarguably useful as a potential feature for me. Whether there is enough desire from Quicken users to merit such a feature to be added by Quicken remains to be seen. It is a very different thing, but Quicken allows multiple (different) payees to be merged into one; and I'm sure Quicken could code the suggested new feature, if it made sense to do.

  • bob2021
    bob2021 Member ✭✭
    edited April 9
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    I am talking about multiple manually entered transactions—specifically, they are recurring transactions, and thus the transactions to be affected would need to be "Marked as deposited" as part of the new feature: Select the transactions; Choose Transactions > Merge Transactions; all selected transactions that are recurring are "Marked as deposited" by the process; the merge occurs splitting each transaction onto it's own split line (with category and/or tag, as applicable), and as part of the merge of course, only one transaction results from the action.

    I didn't mention it in my original post, but the merge feature should work with recurring and/or non-recurring transactions. The only difference would be that the recurring transactions would need to be "Marked as deposited" by the process prior to the merge.

    Downloading has no part at all in this.

    Thanks.

  • volvogirl
    volvogirl SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    How are you entering them now? The solution is to setup an intermediate holding account. Set up a cash account and call it something like Checks Received or Undeposited Payments.  Then enter each payment into it. Then when you make the deposit to your bank account you transfer the total deposit amount to the new account.  Also that way if you download your bank transactions the deposit will match.

    I'm staying on Quicken 2013 Premier for Windows.

  • Quicken Jasmine
    Quicken Jasmine Moderator mod
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    Hello @bob2021,

    I went ahead and changed your post to an Idea so other users who have the same or a similar request can vote on your idea by clicking the up arrow (see below).

    Ideas are also reviewed by our Development and Product teams to improve Quicken and implement new features requested by customers.

    -Quicken Jasmine

    Make sure to sign up for the email digest to see a round-up of your top posts.

  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited April 9
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    @bob2021 I've asked a moderator to move your feature request to the Product Ideas section of the forum so it can be turned into an "Idea" post; that allows other users to vote for the feature if they agree it would be helpful. Ideas which achieve a certain number of votes are then forwarded to the development team for consideration.

    I'm still not sure I understand why you create multiple recurring manual deposit transactions which aren't actual deposits, rather than a single recurring deposit with split lines you can modify to reflect the amounts and items included when you have an actual bank deposit.

    I actually don't think it's a good idea for Quicken to make it easier for users to create transactions which don't mirror real world transactions. (Since the majority of people download bank transactions, Quicken can't allow such transactions to be merged, so this could only apply to manual transactions.)

    As I mentioned, previously, if you want to track your "receivables" at a granular level, then I think having a separate asset account would be the best way to do that. In the asset account — which is not mirroring a real-world bank account — you could record what you are owed as individual (recurring) transactions, and then when you have a bank deposit, you could have multiple split lines using the Memo field to denote which reimbursements are included in that one deposit (e.g. "Bob: Rent for February", "Bob: Utilities for February & March", etc.) enter a single deposit transaction to reduce your asset account. [EDIT: I was typing when @volvogirl posted her reply, but we're talking about the same thing.]

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    OK folks let me state why I asked for the clarification on if these where manually entered transactions. And maybe I can add a bit more information on this situation.

    Have you ever taken multiple checks to the bank and deposited them?

    What you will find it that the bank will combine them into one deposit.

    So, in reality it is the bank that is distorting the "real world". Multiple checks become "one deposit".

    Sure, this kind of thing can be worked around by creating another account doing transfers and such, but in reality, that isn't what is going on in the "real world" either, and it is a lot more work. Another possibility might be to create the split transaction from the beginning but note that depending on when you get the checks and when you deposit them, you can create all kinds of combinations that will not work out with a single split transaction.

    Now let me state how Quicken Windows deals with this problem.

    If you select "Manually Match" you can select one or more transactions to match to from a list of transactions that have yet to been matched to downloaded transactions. And it will do exactly what @bob2021 suggests, merge the individual transactions into one with split lines.

    Now I will point out that Quicken Windows implementation sucks, but not because of the idea of what it should do. First off, they didn't implement it in the mode where transactions go directly into the register. In that mode you can only manually match to one transaction. And other "Warning problems", that I would hope a Quicken Mac implementation wouldn't have. The list on "not yet matched transactions" isn't maintained correctly and there isn't any good way to clean out non matched transactions that you are never going to match. The other thing that I feel is wrong is what it does when the total of the manually entered transaction doesn't match the downloaded one.

    Notice above I said "one or more". Why would you manually match a single transaction? The main reason is because the amount of the manually transactions was an estimate, and the downloaded one is slightly different. What does Quicken Windows do if you manually match these two? It will create a split transaction with one line having the difference between the two. I really feel that it should just change the amount of the manually entered one. Now if you are talking about multiple transactions matched to one downloaded one that is a different story.

    This is sort academic to me since I do use the mode where the transactions go directly into the register in Quicken Windows and this manually matching to a transaction that isn't the same amount or multiple transactions isn't available. And since none of the SuperUsers use this mode there is no traction on getting such a change put in. Maybe in Quicken Mac land some people will see the value of this feature, but as you can see from the reactions of the SuperUsers, you are probably not going to get enough interest in the feature for them to put it in, at least not for years until they start running out of more urgent features.

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  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
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    Have you ever taken multiple checks to the bank and deposited them? What you will find it that the bank will combine them into one deposit. So, in reality it is the bank that is distorting the "real world". Multiple checks become "one deposit".

    @Chris_QPW I understand your point, but I don't think banks "distort the real world". If you want to see the checks individually in your records, make multiple deposits. (I have done this sometimes to make it easier to document in Quicken.) Do you feel credit card companies "distort the real world" when they post a single charge for your purchase of multiple, disparate products? The "real world" in the case of the deposit of multiple checks and the charge of multiple products is that each is one transaction. And that's why splits exist in Quicken (and other finance software): to break out the components embodied in a single transaction.

    So I go back to my original question: why enter individual deposit transactions in Quicken for each check, rather than a single transaction for each deposit, with a split to detail the multiple sources of the deposit?

    Another possibility might be to create the split transaction from the beginning but note that depending on when you get the checks and when you deposit them, you can create all kinds of combinations that will not work out with a single split transaction.

    You lost me there, Chris. It doesn't matter when you get the checks; it matters when you deposit them. If you deposit three checks as a single deposit, it belongs as a single transaction in Quicken, with splits to document who/what/why the payments were for. Your explanation of how Quicken Windows allows multiple transactions to be combined into a single transaction with multiple splits demonstrates that, indeed, multiple deposits can be represented by a single transaction with multiple splits. If you start out entering a manual transaction in Quicken for one check you've received, but then receive another check and combine them into a single deposit, in Quicken you'd simply add another split to the original deposit transaction, the total would update, and you'd be all set.

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Jon
    Jon SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited April 9
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    I don't see any drawbacks to having this feature available. The only times I can recall where I would have found it useful have been purchases in Apple's Music Store & App Store, where if I make multiple song or app purchases in the same 1-2 day period Apple will lump them all together into a single charge on my credit card. I generally avoid Quicken issues with that by waiting until I get a receipt from Apple showing the purchases rather than entering them individually as I make them but I sometimes forget & have to clean it up afterwards.

    Just had this happen a couple weeks ago where I bought an app the same day that a subscription fee was due - the subscription fee is a scheduled transaction but the app purchase obviously was not scheduled so I had entered the purchase as a separate transaction; I had to go back later, delete the purchase and change the scheduled transaction. It would have been easier to be able to combine them instead.

  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
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    It’s also worth thinking about what it would take for a user to be able to “unmerge” a merged transaction (as one can currently in match a matched transaction). All the original fields of data would be gone in a single transaction merged into splits, so any downloaded fields like Staement Memo, original Payee name and FITID (the unique number identifying every downloaded transaction) would be gone, since split lines don’t have those fields.

    There would also need to be a way to sync the multiple changes from such a merged transaction with Quicken Cloud, in both directions.

    None of this would be absolutely impossible to deal with; I’m just noting that it’s a more complex issue than it might seem.

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @jacobs you are assuming that people always know what they are going to do in the future. As @Jon pointed out this isn't always known and might not even be in your control like for the Apple Store or Amazon.

    Can you fix these up and create a split transaction when you do to do the deposit?, certainly. Can you do the same when you find out that the Apple Store Amazon is going to do?, certainly. But that isn't the point. The point is that it isn't that hard to create a feature that you select the transactions that line up with the downloaded transaction and Quicken does this work for you.

    Unmerging would certainly be a problem, but frankly one I have never heard anyone complain about (it just isn't needed). The FITID will not get messed up no more than it would with one manually entered transaction being merged with one downloaded transaction. The manually entered transactions don't have FITIDs, it is the downloaded transaction that has it. The manually entered transaction(s) are merged into the downloaded one.

    Another possibility might be to create the split transaction from the beginning but note that depending on when you get the checks and when you deposit them, you can create all kinds of combinations that will not work out with a single split transaction.

    You lost me there, Chris. It doesn't matter when you get the checks; it matters when you deposit them. If you deposit three checks as a single deposit, it belongs as a single transaction in Quicken, with splits to document who/what/why the payments were for. 

    If you are doing this purely manual, then yes as you get checks in that you know are going to deposit you can just create/add split lines to an existing transaction, but if you are using reminders, those transactions might already be entered into the register, and you might not know which ones will be deposited when. This might not be wise since you are predicting money in your account before it actually happens, but that is the difference between cleared and not cleared.

    And for the case where it is out of your control like @Jon mentioned where you make two separate purchases and believe that they will be downloaded separately only to find that they are combined you are going to have to do some kind of merging/deleting on your own like @bob2021 pointed out.

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  • nateschafer
    nateschafer Member
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    My thought is similar, but perhaps in the opposite direction.(?) For example, my paycheck has multiple line items associated with allocations to my 401k: my base transfer, my companies match, my "extra" transfer (catch-up) amount, etc. These match the way they are reported on my pay stub. While all these properly show up in my 401k account (all as separate transfers), they are not getting matched to any downloaded transaction from my 401k management site since they (in real life) only get a "single" combined transfer. Thus, these muti-Quicken transfers never get matched to downloaded transactions.

    This may be a "Paycheck" specific feature: if/when multiple paycheck split categories are destined for the same (separate) account, the destination account will record them as a single transaction (or a single transaction with matching slit categories).

    Nate

  • Jon
    Jon SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
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    if/when multiple paycheck split categories are destined for the same (separate) account, the destination account will record them as a single transaction (or a single transaction with matching slit categories).

    That may be true for you but it wasn't for me. My regular contribution, catch-up contribution, and employer matching contribution were all separate entries on my 401K statements. And since each deposit was spread across 4 different funds, that meant that each paycheck generated 12 separate transactions in my 401K. I would have appreciated it if they had combined them down to just 4 but they did not.

  • nateschafer
    nateschafer Member
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    My comment (wish) is I would like Quicken to do this, not that it is currently doing that. I was proposing a new feature that would allow control over how categories in paychecks get translated into destination entries. (This is the way "normal" transfers from one account to another work. For example, I can generate a transfer from, say, my savings account to my checking account with several splits, but they (all) get merged into a single transaction in my checking account.)

  • CindyLV
    CindyLV Member ✭✭
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    In my case, We have an investment account that sends multiple transfers in a day from an investment account to a Bank Account (Money Market), often between 6-12 transfers.

    The Quicken downloaded transaction on the Bank Account side is a single transaction for the day.

    To reconcile this with the investment account, we have to manually turn the single transaction (on the destination side) into a split, then manally retype each individual transfer into the split. Then we go to the investment account and manually match each of their downloaded transactions with the one we just manually entered. We have to do this 3-5 times every month. It is a LOT of work

    Proposed solution: It would be great if we could select and drag the individual transfers to the Banks's downloaded transfer, thus creating a split out of it.

    This would greatly simplify our dealings with Quicken.