Add ability to customize the asset class menu (37 Legacy Votes)

cst4283

in Quicken Mac one can't edit or customize the list of asset classes, like if I wanted to have a class called Real estate, or crypto currencies etc. I believe this function exists in the Windows version.

rrockley

This a major and unnecessary weakness of QMac and shows a serious lack of imagination and desire to meet users' needs on the part of QMac developers. I have worked with several accounting systems over the years and have never before come across one where you couldn't add your own balance sheet account names and account groupings.

My issue is that I have about 20 LLC investments (and growing) - some of these will be worth $ but some could be worth nothing, and I usually don't know which for several years. I would prefer to record each one separately but be able to collapse them all into one total rather than have a string of individual historical dollar amount investments cluttering up the sidebar.

This can't be a difficult upgrade to program. You're supposed to be the leader in personal finance software, please get this done.

jacobs

@rrockley You're mixing different issues, and some of the things you're asking for already exist.

rrockley said:

I have worked with several accounting systems over the years and have never before come across one where you couldn't add your own balance sheet account names and account groupings.

First, I'd note that Quicken is a personal finance program, not a professional accounting system, and there are some important differences between those types of software. For example, a professional accounting system requires double entries -- a debit and credit -- for every transaction; in Quicken, it is possible to create single-sided entries. In a professional accounting system, once a transaction is posted, you can't edit it or delete it; you have to post an adjusting or reversing entry to fix a mistake; in Quicken, users can always edit or delete prior transactions. I won't go further, but you get the idea. This is a program for consumers, not accountants. 

But you can add your own balance sheet account names: they are the Accounts in Quicken, which you see in your left sidebar. Run a Net Worth report, and it's a Balance Sheet report, listing the value of each account on the date specified.

It's true that Quicken doesn't let you re-arrange your accounts in your own way. As you've seen in another thread, this is a feature many users have requested, and the developers have said they are thinking about implementing in the future. 

Also as you've seen in one of your other threads, there is a way to accomplish what you want: having a single investment account in Quicken with each of your LLC investments tracked as a separate security. That would give you a single value in the left sidebar, and in the investment Portfolio view, you could see the combined investments or a list of each one. But you continue to post that it can't be done, so I guess you're not satisfied entering your investments that way for some reason; you can continue to post about what you think Quicken should do, and perhaps changes can be made, but be prepared for a long wait.  

All that said, this Idea thread is about something entirely different: custom asset classes for securities. The desire for custom classes is all about people wanting to create asset allocation reports using their own definitions of asset classes instead of Quicken's limited set (large and small cap stocks, international stocks, domestic and international bonds, and cash). Quicken uses that limited breakdown because its data supplier (Morningstar?) uses that limited set of basic asset classes. But there are lots of other ways to classify securities, like the typical 3x3 grid (for stocks: growth/value versus cap size; for bonds: credit quality versus maturity length). Or sector allocations: consumer, financial, real estate, utilities, technology, etc. Quicken doesn't have a way to enter/track/report on these other types of classifications of assets. If Quicken allowed users to create their own asset classes, then users would have the option to classify their holdings however they want for the purposes of seeing an asset allocation report. 

rrockley said:

This can't be a difficult upgrade to program.

Haha, now that's funny! Sorry, I know you're new to Quicken, and I don't mean to poke fun — but for those of us who have been using Quicken for many years, it's hard not to smile anytime someone says adding new features should be easy and fast.

The developers at Quicken have spent roughly a decade building the current Quicken Mac from scratch (after the legacy Mac program was discontinued due to the major changes in the Mac operating system). And every user who has been along for that ride can assure you that Quicken is actually a complex program, and adding features to it is slow work. Users on this site have submitted more than 600 Ideas posts for new/improved features. Some of them don't have serious merit, but many do, and the developers are always picking their way through the overwhelming number of enhancement requests to tackle the ones they think are most pressing or will have the largest impact. Quicken Mac has improved significantly over the years, and there's no reason to think it won't continue to improve in the years ahead as the developers tackle more feature requests. But saying that a change to asset classes or account grouping "can't be difficult" just isn't realistic. Changes to account groups and asset classes affects more than just the appearance of the left sidebar, because it ripples through to reports, registers and more.

Please don't misunderstand: I think allowing users to customize their account groups and account order would be a fine addition to the program, and I've voted for that idea; I'm just saying that thinking it's an easy change, or something that stands head and shoulders above a few dozen other high-priority needs, is off-base.

Chris_QPW

@jacobs Everything is easy to do, as long as you aren't the one doing it.  

Tim Mc

@jacobs our point exactly. The explanation that their data supplier (Morningstar) doesn't use the 3X3 grid as an excuse does not make sense. If you go on to the Morningstar website, all assets are all defined on the 3x3 grid. This is a minimal ask to Quicken. As Catagories and Tags are user-defined there is no reason not to make Asset Class user-defined.

jacobs

@Tim Mc I think the web pages you get when you click on Security Overview in Quicken likely use Morningstar data, and they show a variety of breakdowns of a security. For instance, this is the Vanguard Total Stock fund. The page shows the Asset Allocation which matches with the asset allocations Quicken uses:

It also shows what Morningstar calls "Management style", the 3x3 grid we've mentioned:

And it also shows Sector Allocation:

The problem Quicken faces is that different users may consider each of these a form of asset allocation, and want them reflected in their Quicken allocation. (And there are additional things missing from even these three metrics, such as investments in cryptocurrency, precious metals, NFTs, art...). So if Quicken opens the door and lets people create the asset classes they want, then Quicken can't download asset mixture data for those investments where users assign classes Quicken's data supplier does not use.

For example, I have some shares of the Vanguard Extended Market Index fund. It's a fund which tracks the S&P 3000 excluding the S&P 500. In the Morningstar 3x3 grid, it's clearly a mid-cap style fund. But Quicken's data doesn't have a mid-cap class, just large-cap and small-cap. So the data Quicken gets about this fund shows it as 16% large cap and 81% small cap. If I could create my own asset class, I would probably classify this as 100% mid-cap. Which is better? Which is more "right"? 

And if I wanted to use the 3x3 grid approach to classifying holdings, I really need 18 asset classes, 9 for stocks and 9 for bonds. Now the number of classes becomes a bit much to digest, so I'd really want a way to "roll up" some of the different styles into a few larger categories, like Growth (encompassing large, mid and small cap stocks), or Small-Cap (encompassing growth, value and blend stocks).

Creating the user interface to allow grouping of asset classes, or sub-classes, would likely get pretty complex, so the Quicken developers might avoid the complexities and stick with one-dimensional asset classes. In any case, since user-defined asset classes already exist in Quicken Windows, I would expect it will come to Quicken Mac as well at some point. 

Chris_QPW

Just for the record, the exact problems that @jacobs suggested do happen in Quicken Windows now that it has custom asset classes and security types.  The very first thing people noticed when the custom asset classes were added is they removed the ability to get Quicken to suggest a good asset mix.  The asset mixing was of course based on the “standard assets”, the moment you have custom ones, you can’t do that any more.

There is also risk/reward numbers, that are now useless if you are using a custom asset class.

Also the Premier version has “MorningStar XRay Portfolio”, where your securities are uploaded to MorningStar and a web page report of such breakdown as you have shown in your post @jacobs is displayed.  This report ignores all of your asset classes in Quicken and just uses what MorningStar thinks about your securities.  And note that means it has to be a security that is “public” and one that MorningStart tracks.  So, you get people wonder why when they have told Quicken a given security is 100% bonds that if even shows up in this report it is completely different.

Bottom line is that it is very hard to keep everything consistent when you go down the customize path.

I might add that this broke the reallocation chart, which they have yet to fix.  It still only works with the standard asset classes, and as such is useless if you have a custom asset class.

Tim Mc

@jacobs @Chris_QPW as you point out Morningstar has already solved this by describing these as different as they are "Asset Allocation" "Sector Allocation" and "Management Style". They evaluate each asset differently, as you point out, to better characterize what you have. Looking at one (particularly the current format!) is insufficient to make any decisions about what you have. @jacobs, yes, there should be 18 asset classes (or management styles) defined as a usable set. The current assets' only value is foreign vs. domestic and that is of less value than the 3x3 grid information. Sectors would be a bonus but would be a second and separate feature that is needed.

Chris_QPW

Just for reference Quicken Windows has an unlimited (as far as I can tell) number of "Security Types" and 10 custom asset types (there are already 8 standard ones).

Stephen Fisher

+Just looking above and I see it's 5 years since this complaint was aired.  Not very responsive from Q.  
I find this the lamest part of QMac. Not only are the limited options incomplete, what they have allowed for Type/Class would have failed in any "Construct a database" class at school. Very poorly conceived. I have worked around this somewhat (spending way more time than I'd like) by adding an appropriate tag to every security (such as Pref Share or REIT) and substituting a useful redefinition for the supplied name, like say Convertible Debenture for Domestic Bond in a lookup file.  But certainly I get he impression this section of the app was conceived by someone who knows nothing about investing.  

vahe guzelimian

I totally agree Stephen. This is a MAJOR lapse onn software improvements to the Investment side. I have to use Quicken Windows in order to get my asset allocations the way I want them!! Q has had PLENTY of time to add this simple feature.

Phil Pifer

Maybe Q would be better off doing a deal w/Morningstar to allow QMac clients to download their positions information to a free Morningstar account allowing us to get proper asset allocation information via their platform...

vahe guzelimian

I don't want Morningstar info, I want custom ones

jacobs

We don't know who Quicken uses as their data provider, but it very well could be Morningstar. In order for Morningstar (or any data supplier) to work correctly with Quicken to show asset allocation, the program and the supplier must have a common set of asset classes. And that's what we see currently: a limited set of asset classes such that Quicken can download location data from the supplier.

The Mac development team could do what the Windows developers have done, and allow users to create their own asset classes — but then automated asset allocation won't work for users who create their own classes. From what I've read from Quicken Windows users, it's a double-edged sword: some users would likely be fine with that, while others would likely be confused.

I would guess they will eventually add custom asset classes; as for the timing, the problem is that they have hundreds of feature requests from users, and they can only implement a few at a time, so progress on the list is painfully slow. 

vahe guzelimian

I use Security Type in Windows Q to customize my assets, so I leave the Morningstar stuff in Asset Class alone - not useful. I would like to custom set Security Type according to my wishes in Q Mac also so I don't have to use both Mac and Windows versions. Is that much to ask for years and years???

WhitakerB

I have just moved from Quicken for Windows to Quicken for Mac, and am a little frustrated by the lack of the "custom allocation" option in the Mac version like there is in the Windows version. Can you please consider bringing this feature to the Mac version?

MoneyMaven3355

Yes, please.

Quicken Jasmine

Hello @WhitakerB,

Thank you for taking the time to reach out to the Community with your request.

I went ahead and merged your idea post with a current idea post that relates.

Ideas are also reviewed by our Development and Product teams in order to improve Quicken and implement new features requested by customers.

Please, be sure to add your own vote as well.

vahe guzelimian

Jasmine what's the link to the post that you move this discussion to?

jacobs

vahe guzelimian said:

Jasmine what's the link to the post that you move this discussion to?

@vahe guzelimian It's the thread where you're viewing this post. The URL is:

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7624226/add-ability-to-customize-the-asset-class-menu-36-legacy-votes/p1

Your comment and mine here are on the last (third) page of the thread.

vahe guzelimian

I would be happier if "Security Type" is customizable rather than Asset Class which is a Morningstar thing.

Chris_QPW

vahe guzelimian said:

I would be happier if "Security Type" is customizable rather than Asset Class which is a Morningstar thing.

Well, in Quicken Windows about the only place I see the security type used is for grouping in the portfolio view.  It is interesting that in fact the security type and the asset type have completely different use cases.

Stephen Fisher

Babe, Chris, don't get hung up in the "asset class" "asset type" nomenclature that they are imposing on us. I want to be in charge of that, not them.

Mike805

We've been asking for this for a long time but never get any satisfaction. I'm still using Quicken 2007 to track investments and calculate return by asset type as it allows you to specify your own definition of asset types.

vahe guzelimian

I don't understand why this issue isn't a priority. They add useless features no one needs.

Chris_QPW

vahe guzelimian said:

I don't understand why this issue isn't a priority. They add useless features no one needs.

I have yet to see any of Quicken Mac features added that "useless".  They all seem to be "vital" to one person or another.  You just expect that your priorities should override everyone else's.

sabronson2020

Please let us customize our own asset classes for equities and bonds. You can do this with the Goal feature in the windows version, but why don't we have either for mac. There are so many more categories than just Large Cap, Small Cap and International stocks. It's a no brainer to let us choose them either as the "Asset Class" or "Investment Goal" or just another sub category such as the Morning Star Asset Classes. I'd like to see Large Cap Value, Large Cap Blend, Large Cap Growth, etc.

Quicken Anja

Hello @sabronson2020,

Thank you for reaching out to the Community with your request.

Your idea has been merged into this already active Idea thread regarding the same request.

Thank you!

Stephen Fisher

Chris_QPW said:

vahe guzelimian said:

I don't understand why this issue isn't a priority. They add useless features no one needs.

I have yet to see any of Quicken Mac features added that "useless".  They all seem to be "vital" to one person or another.  You just expect that your priorities should override everyone else's.

I disagree. For example they make a big deal out of a green button added  to remove filters when there was already an x in the entry field to do the same job.  Meanwhile, they sell a “Canadian” version that does not allow us to calculate our capital gains according to Canadian law. For us that is not a priority, it is an error. And there are other actual errors that they do not address in all versions. 

DFRI

Or a user-customizable notes field that we can put what we want in.