R41.19 Release Notes - Preparing for Chase Bank Bill Payment changes

Winter001

R41.19 install notes state In preparation for Chase changing its Online Bill connectivity, added guidance for converting Chase Online Bills to manual bill reminders.
Added the ability to get balances and due dates for Chase credit cards from connected online accounts.

Does anyone have a clue what this means? Quicken reps need to explain this so Chase user's are aware.

Tom Young

Apparently Chase, like many other financial institutions, is abandoning the Direct Connect method they've previously used to communicate with the Quicken program in favor of a different method, Express Web Connect+ (EWC+).  Direct Connect allows for two-way communication between the program and the bank, while EWC+ does not.  It's the two-way communication aspect of Direct Connect that allows you to pay bills out of your Chase bank account while you're in the Quicken program, so that service will go away.

I prefaced the above with the word "apparently" as there's not been, as far as I know, an official announcement by Chase about this.

Winter001

Thanks Tom... I thought it was that Chase was no longer going to allow Direct Connect. Wonder when Quicken... reps from Quicken will offer info on this... Apparently/unfortunately, after the fact so to speak.

Tom Young

As I understand it, Quicken is somewhat in the dark as to if/when the change over will take place so the ball's in Chase's court to make that all clear.

Ps56k2

Winter001 said: R41.19 install notes state In preparation for Chase changing its Online Bill connectivity, added guidance for converting Chase Online Bills to manual bill reminders.

If you have Chase - and are using their direct Bank Bill Payment .... have you noticed anything actually changed ?

Winter001

No, not yet.

Quicken Kathryn

Hi All,
Just to clarify what's happening:
It is true that Chase Direct connect (including Direct Connect bill payment) is going away, although we don't have a set date on that yet.

The Chase bills mentioned in the R41.19 release is referring to something separate: that Chase is no longer allowing Quicken to download Chase eBills for Bill Presentment, meaning that after this change goes live (at the end of the month) you will not be able to pay your Chase payees with QuickPay from inside of Quicken.  

The changes in product will enable you to more easily track your Chase payees, so you can pay these bills with Check Pay.

Please see this FAQ for more information: https://www.quicken.com/support/chase-bills-no-longer-available-bill-manager 

Thanks--

Sherlock

Quicken Kathryn said:

Hi All,
Just to clarify what's happening:
It is true that Chase Direct connect (including Direct Connect bill payment) is going away, although we don't have a set date on that yet.

The Chase bills mentioned in the R41.19 release is referring to something separate: that Chase is no longer allowing Quicken to download Chase eBills for Bill Presentment, meaning that after this change goes live (at the end of the month) you will not be able to pay your Chase payees with QuickPay from inside of Quicken.  

The changes in product will enable you to more easily track your Chase payees, so you can pay these bills with Check Pay.

Please see this FAQ for more information: https://www.quicken.com/support/chase-bills-no-longer-available-bill-manager 

Thanks--

I suspect this explains why so many users have been having issues with Chase for months.  We have closed our Chase accounts and have let Chase know why we will no longer be a customer or recommend Chase.

Jason Gittman

> @Ps56k2 said:
> If you have Chase - and are using their direct Bank Bill Payment .... have you noticed anything actually changed ?

Yes, I can no longer pay bills through Quicken using Chase bill pay and now have to logon to chase.com to pay bills.

Jason Gittman

What is Express Web Connect? Is that the same as plain Web Connect whereby you have to logon to the bank's website, download the qfx file for each account, and then click on the file for entry into the register?

I have a Chase business checking account and chase was charging $10/month for direct connection, so I was using Web Connect for the one account. It takes much longer to download transactions that way. If Chase is going to require doing this for each of my Chase personal accounts (checking, savings and 2 credit card) it will be a major inconvenience. Is this what is Chase going to require its customers to do? If so, I think I will switch to another bank, although that would be a hassle as well.

Sherlock

Jason Gittman said:

What is Express Web Connect? Is that the same as plain Web Connect whereby you have to logon to the bank's website, download the qfx file for each account, and then click on the file for entry into the register?

I have a Chase business checking account and chase was charging $10/month for direct connection, so I was using Web Connect for the one account. It takes much longer to download transactions that way. If Chase is going to require doing this for each of my Chase personal accounts (checking, savings and 2 credit card) it will be a major inconvenience. Is this what is Chase going to require its customers to do? If so, I think I will switch to another bank, although that would be a hassle as well.

If you haven't already, you may want to review: https://www.quicken.com/support/how-quicken-connects-your-bank

My understanding is Chase will no longer be supporting the Direct Connect and Web Connect connection methods.  You will only be able to use the unreliable Express Web Connect connection method but there should be no fee as Intuit will have access to your data.

Ps56k2

Jason Gittman said:  Yes, I can no longer pay bills through Quicken using Chase bill pay...

Interesting.... as I can still Send my Chase payments via Quicken One Step Update - and the config file still shows that capability.
And, I have not had any problems with using Chase this way - for years...  will have to go back to the manual double entry -
1 - receive the manual bill info and manually enter the Reminder transaction within Quicken.
2 - go over to the Chase online website - Bill Payment - and enter the transaction to actually pay the bill.

10898    10898    10898    Chase    https://www.chase.com/    1-877-242-7372   
https://secure01c.chase.com    ACTIVE   
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO,PAYMENT&DIRECT   
BANKING,CREDIT&WEB-CONNECT        
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO&EXP-WEB-CONNECT

mrzookie

So if I'm merely downloading transactions (no bills or bill payment) for my Chase CC via direct connect, I will still need to switch to EWC+, correct? And the date for that change is still undetermined?

Chris_QPW

Ps56k2 said:

Jason Gittman said:  Yes, I can no longer pay bills through Quicken using Chase bill pay...

Interesting.... as I can still Send my Chase payments via Quicken One Step Update - and the config file still shows that capability.
And, I have not had any problems with using Chase this way - for years...  will have to go back to the manual double entry -
1 - receive the manual bill info and manually enter the Reminder transaction within Quicken.
2 - go over to the Chase online website - Bill Payment - and enter the transaction to actually pay the bill.

10898    10898    10898    Chase    https://www.chase.com/    1-877-242-7372   
https://secure01c.chase.com    ACTIVE   
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO,PAYMENT&DIRECT   
BANKING,CREDIT&WEB-CONNECT        
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO&EXP-WEB-CONNECT

Most likely they are just too lazy to update the information until they really pull the plug.

mrzookie said:

So if I'm merely downloading transactions (no bills or bill payment) for my Chase CC via direct connect, I will still need to switch to EWC+, correct? And the date for that change is still undetermined?

Yes, you will need to change to Express Web Connect based on this article.
https://www.quicken.com/support/chase-bills-no-longer-available-bill-manager

For me personally, when this switch over happens will be the end of my use of Quicken.
I refuse to deal with the unreliable Express Web Connect and consolidating my accounts on Chase is more important to me then the limited use I make of Quicken these days.

Sherlock

mrzookie said:

So if I'm merely downloading transactions (no bills or bill payment) for my Chase CC via direct connect, I will still need to switch to EWC+, correct? And the date for that change is still undetermined?

Correct (assuming you still want to import the transactions using One Step Update or Update Now) and correct.  This is similar to the Schwab stupidity.  They're intentionally reducing functionality to save money.

Sherlock

Chris_QPW said:

Ps56k2 said:

Jason Gittman said:  Yes, I can no longer pay bills through Quicken using Chase bill pay...

Interesting.... as I can still Send my Chase payments via Quicken One Step Update - and the config file still shows that capability.
And, I have not had any problems with using Chase this way - for years...  will have to go back to the manual double entry -
1 - receive the manual bill info and manually enter the Reminder transaction within Quicken.
2 - go over to the Chase online website - Bill Payment - and enter the transaction to actually pay the bill.

10898    10898    10898    Chase    https://www.chase.com/    1-877-242-7372   
https://secure01c.chase.com    ACTIVE   
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO,PAYMENT&DIRECT   
BANKING,CREDIT&WEB-CONNECT        
BANKING,CREDIT,ACCOUNTINFO&EXP-WEB-CONNECT

Most likely they are just too lazy to update the information until they really pull the plug.

mrzookie said:

So if I'm merely downloading transactions (no bills or bill payment) for my Chase CC via direct connect, I will still need to switch to EWC+, correct? And the date for that change is still undetermined?

Yes, you will need to change to Express Web Connect based on this article.
https://www.quicken.com/support/chase-bills-no-longer-available-bill-manager

For me personally, when this switch over happens will be the end of my use of Quicken.
I refuse to deal with the unreliable Express Web Connect and consolidating my accounts on Chase is more important to me then the limited use I make of Quicken these days.

Will this also be the end of your support at https://www.quicknperlwiz.com/ ?

Bob.

I read everything I could on all this. Including the linked FAQs, etc. Questions, of couse!

1. I have Chase Credit Cards. Nothing else Chase

2. They are now connected via Direct Connect
    a. I pay them via my Checking account at another bank
    b. I the only thing I need to do is change from DC to EWC+?
        i. Can I do that manually? / Is it preferred to let Quicken do it when I update the version in Quicken?
       
3. Do we expect other banks to do this? If so, my if big bank Checking Account where I pay ALL my bills from inside Quicken changes, what happens?
    a. Could this be why said other big bank no longer gets pdf updates since February?
    
    Thanks.

       
    
   

Winter001

> @Chris_QPW said:
> Most likely they are just too lazy to update the information until they really pull the plug.
> Yes, you will need to change to Express Web Connect based on this article.
> https://www.quicken.com/support/chase-bills-no-longer-available-bill-manager
>
> For me personally, when this switch over happens will be the end of my use of Quicken.
> I refuse to deal with the unreliable Express Web Connect and consolidating my accounts on Chase is more important to me then the limited use I make of Quicken these days.

I too will undoubtedly call it quits using Quicken. I have been a Quicken user since Eric Dunn first sent me his fledgling offering and then called me on the phone to help me set it up. I sure will miss using Quicken..

Bob.

Please explain why EWC is unreliable? And why that will cause you to abandon Quicken.

It is such a part of my daily routine I have no idea how I would ever leave it. And 10-12 years of history I sometimes need to access.

Chris_QPW

Bob. said:

Please explain why EWC is unreliable? And why that will cause you to abandon Quicken.

It is such a part of my daily routine I have no idea how I would ever leave it. And 10-12 years of history I sometimes need to access.

It can be explained in two facts.
The first is the complicated flow.

Direct Connect:
Quicken -> financial institution's OFX server (using the standardized QFX protocol).

Express Web Connect:

Quicken -> QCS (Quicken Connection Services/Quicken Cloud dataset this is the same as sync to Mobile/Web) -> Intuit servers -> financial institution's website.

In my opinion should always be avoided.  It has been implicated in strange transactions changing and data file corruption.

The "method" of connecting from the Intuit server to the financial institution isn't standardized.  The financial institution tells Intuit how it should log in as the user and how to retrieve the data.  The first implication of this is that the Intuit servers have to go through all the same hoops that a human would to access the website, like 2FA instead of a protocol designed to be secure and reliable for two machines to talk to each other.  And at any time, the financial institution can make changes to this without informing Intuit (or not give them enough time) and as such things can be broken for long periods of time.  What's more, when something does go wrong you never know if the problem is with Quicken/Quicken servers/Intuit/financial institution, and none of them will tell you what is really going on, just one big blame game.

In the past before QCS was inserted into the flow I did have some accounts that I maintained with Express Web Connect.  E-Trade bank tended to be pretty reliable.  On the other hand, between Synchrony bank and a Macy's credit card I could expect some kind of problem with one or both every couple of months on average.

Whether to drop Quicken over this is personal decision that certainly doesn't apply to everyone.

My history with Quicken started in about 1992.  Back then I had very little investments and it wasn't possible to download transactions and the offerings of the financial institutions were pretty slim.  I manual entered for a year or two but gave it up because it was too much trouble.  I started again with Quicken in 1996 and have been using it since that time.

Over the years it has been very valuable to me as I was using lots of different financial institutions and had ESSPs, ESOs, RSOs, ... and more involved investments.

But that is all in the past.  I work part time as a contractor for one client (as in one check a month), and as of September I will start getting my Social Security.  And our investments consist of 3 ETFs, and cash, and some Lending Club notes that are slowing being paid off (Lending Club sold out to a bank and no new notes are being issued).  And the cash from this is just going to the other investments.

On top all of this, the financial institution's offerings have improved drastically over this time period.
Chase is literally across the street from us, and given we have a lot of funds with them, they don't charge us any fees.  All the reason I left Well Fargo 25 years ago for nickel and diming me for everything and went with Internet banks has dropped away.

Bob.

Great explanation. Thanks, Chris.

Chris_QPW

BTW here is a quote from another thread that shows just how fragile Express Web Connect is:

Recently BofA changed their appearance of the website slightly. Now when downloading the entries, BofA and quicken will not match the entries already in the ledger, and adds duplicate accounts.

Quicken Kathryn

Hi All,
There seems to be a lot of confusion here, which is not surprising, because it is pretty confusing...

Bill Presentment/eBills Discontinuation with Chase
This is happening at the end of the month, and this is what the 41.19 release notes are referring to.  When this happens, you will no longer be able to download your Chase bills (these are bills you pay to Chase, such as your Chase credit card bill) into Quicken using the current download method. 

Bill Presentment in Quicken for Windows:


If you would like to continue downloading your bills in Quicken Windows, Chase does provide a different method for customers to switch to, EWC bill download, for credit card accounts; however, this EWC bill will not allow users to pay the bill from Quicken with Quick Pay.  It will only allow you to see the bill and amount, so you can pay with either Check Pay (provided by Quicken) or Direct Connect Bill Pay (provided by Chase).

This change does not impact Direct Connect Bill Pay for Chase.  This change only impacts the ability to use Quick Pay from the Quicken product.

However...

Chase Direct Connect and Express Web Connect Discontinuation
Later in the year (tentative date end of September, but that may shift) Direct Connect and Express Web Connect for Chase will both be disabled by Chase.  Chase users will need to transition to EWC+, which is a more stable API connection, and much more immune to things like website changes or security pop-ups from the bank preventing updates. 

This change will impact Direct Connect Bill Pay for Chase, as Direct Connect will no longer be an option.  All of the details of this transition will go out to Chase users as we get closer to the transition date.


I hope this clarifies things (a bit) - we've been working to make these transitions as smooth as possible, and if you are a Chase customer, you will receive information about this soon--

Bob.

What a fool I am. I did the update.

And I do not feel this is yet well explained online and definitely NOT in Quicken. Here's the story:

After the update to 41.19, Quicken requested me to delete the reminders for Chase and recreated them with NUMEROUS errors including me having to rename them to match the accounts (which they were before the update) and reschedule the reminders. It trashed EVERYTHING about the existing reminders. Amounts, dates, name, pay from account, etc.

Then I re-added the Chase Online Billers and it truncated those names and added them back and still as Direct Connect!!

I had to rename these billers and relink to the edited reminders and delete two reminders that were created by this process incorrectly.

Now I am back to Chase Billers "need attention". And I lost all the previous pdfs. The needs attention returns to the same loop about deleting the accounts and manual reminders.

I MAY try to change from Direct Connect to EWC. But this is very poorly explained and painful. I'm coincerned to make it worse.

I have a backup from before the update but was afraid will not work with 41.19. Oh well, I restored from there. No change looks just like the file I had. Same needs attention for Chase accounts. And it renamed them AGAIN in Online Billers. And unlinked from the reminders.

I renamed, and relinked. Quicken says SUCCESS, but instead of having the option to unlink, I STILL have the relink option.

What a mess. And I consider myself a power user.

Very unhappy.

I do not know what to do at this point. Help? I want to be able to check balances in Update Billers and pay through my bank, as I have for years. I was lead to believe by all the announcements and threads here I can and ALL that would change would be the ability to pay through Quicken Bill Pay. Does not seem to be true.

The online billers are broken. The accounts still check in OSU for credit card transactions.

PS. The update ALSO added checking investments at Quicken .com. I do not have any and never check this.

Suggestions please? Change from Direct Connect? Wait?

@Quicken Kathryn? Anyone?

Quicken Kathryn

@Bob. Could you let me know what errors you saw when you attempted to move from online to manual bill reminders?  That's not an experience we saw in testing--could you also include screenshots of what you're seeing now, if possible?

Thanks--

Bob.

It continues:

I went back in Quicken and the Chase Online Billers showed bills due that I had already paid. So I marked them as paid.

The PAY button changed to Try Again. So I did. It now wants my Chase credentials again. I did, says it linked and briefly showed my paid balance due. Tried Again for another Chase account, same routine.

Closed and opened Quicken aagain and now went to link these two billers and this time it worked and show the "unlink" menu entry. But they do not update and still are Direct Connect.

Just an update. Enough for tonight.

@Quicken_Kathryn

Not sure what you are asking. Thought I was pretty thorough above. And what I see now is different from what I saw in the process.

It removed the billers, removed the remnders and recreated poor reminders with the worng account nems, the remoinder time, the amounts and wher ethey get paid from. I edited ALL the reminder data.

I re-added the billlers, had to reauthorize as it said new device and then tried to link to reminders.

After ALL my work above I now have:

1. Accurtate reminders

2. Linked to Chase online billers

3.Chase Billers show need attention and if I try that starts the loop to remove the reominders and accounts again.

I need these online billers.

I had "assumed" the process would change the billlers fro direct connect to EWC. It did not. And the billers are now non functional.

Thank g_d the accounts still get data.

Ask me questions. Or call me. Or email me.

And SHOULD I change from direct connect to EWC for Chase or not? I'll try if you want me to.

~Bob

Ps56k2

WOW..... the Chase "migration" kinda looks like the Schwab "migration"

Bob.

I did not experience the Schwb migration

I would normally say in the light of day things appear a little different- but this is in the dark of night. A little less frustrated and a little more thinking this through as I experienced with  screen shots requested by @Quicken Kathryn as it is now (after a lot of work). I wish I had thought to do screenshots during the update, but did not expect all this.

2 screenshots and a better understanding of what went wrong.

This is similar to what appeared directly after the update.

What I assumed from reading as much here on the forums as I could was that by the conversion it would change the method from Direct Connect to EWC. It did not. So I clicked the learn more and I followed the click below to track manually thinking that after that it would be added back as EWC, but what really happened was that it removed these billers (expected) and added new reminders that showed only as Chase (no account name to distinguish - just last 4 digits), and changed the amount to last amount paid, changed to 0 days alert, etc. I now hasd 2 different remonders for each account. I truly do not remember which I deleted then and which I edited. I made those correct again and only one per account.

I then added the online biller accounts for Chase back thinking this is where it will change to EWC and as said here Kathryn, the only difference will be that Chase will no longer work with QUICKEN Bill Pay (my bank will still be fine - as I have always done. Chase thought new device and wanted credentials again. No issue there.

Well, I had to edit the name again and try to link to the reminders. Where it said "Success" each time, the option to Unlink Reminder was still LINK to Reminder showing me it did not work. That took 4 or 5 tries until the Unlink appeared in the menu. It also changed to defaulting to the minimum amount due where I always selected Total Amount Due.

So now, it APPEARS that everything is back to pre-update except that I lost the historic pdfs. OK, not the first time for that. AND a new interpretation of what may happen in the next days.

Correct me where wrong:

The scraping of Billers for Chase will stop for some period of time. I do not know what that will do to the online billers from Chase. I did not expect that from reading the forum threads.

Sometime soon, there will either be instructions to change Direct to EWC or it will happen automatically. Then, I will be able to either use or change the Online Billers to scrape properly again, but without the benefit of Direct Connect.

I should NOT make that change manually right now.

Is this correct or....

Bob.

So sorry about all the blank lines. Cutting nd pasting here always does that.

Bob.

OK, now light of day and reading this more carefully:

https://www.quicken.com/support/chase-bills-no-longer-available-bill-manager

I think I was prepared for and expecting this:

But instead I got the track manually which created most of my issues.

So it seems from this article I SHOULD manually change to EWC. Yes? If so, will do and then note all my steps and/or issues.

I COULD restore from before the update if I do it quickly before things change and see if this retains the pdf history and/or original Reminders.

Will wait for a reply. @Quicken Kathryn ?

Bob.

OK, I had to try....

Changed to EWC. Asked for reidentification then TWO text codes. Linked to existing accounts. Then an odd strange CHASE account - or tried to.
Added back Check Quicken Investments.
Did not change Needs Attention in Online Billers. So hit Try Again. Required reauthenticatiing once again!
Still shows Needs Attention
Try Again - reauthorize requested. But, links to reminders remained.

Still Needs attention. And when checking Online Services, bioth Chase acounts show this:

What to do here?

And NOW, I get this? I already DID. What to do here??

So, I am on EWC. I have two dialogs I do not know the best way to deal with. Advice please.....