Quicken for Mac: Business Accounts

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  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
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    @JoelC In the US, most people with business income would file quarterly estimated taxes. (Thus the card in the business dashboard for quarterly estimated tax payments.) I never thought of trying to create a liability account for accruing future taxes, though. Using Intuit TurboTax to prepare our annual tax return, we also calculate estimated taxes for the following year; unless something changes significantly during the year, I stick with those estimates, which can be entered as a scheduled transaction each quarter in Quicken.

    You could certainly take that a step further by creating an asset account with a monthly accrual for taxes, and then paying the taxes out of that account. But since you pay monthly in Canada… do you need the extra complication the separate account and the offsetting monthly accrual and payment, rather than just entering a single tax payment transaction each month?

    Perhaps some other Canadian small business users will chime in with how they handle this.

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • Jon
    Jon SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
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    Seems like a basically workable method for tracking your taxes. I would probably not use a credit card account for this, I would use either a Liability account or a Cash account. I use a Cash account for medical expenses in a similar way to what you're describing, where I can see the amount of unpaid medical bills I have outstanding.

    Quicken Mac subscription. Quicken user since 1990.

  • JamesX714
    JamesX714 Member ✭✭
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    Here is summary of what I recommend for tracking tax (in this example the HST)

    1. create a debt account called Tax Collected (or whatever you like)
    2. create (2) tags one for tax collected (HST) and one for recoverable tax (ITC)
    3. for every required debit or credit that requires tracking tax split the transaction. (within the split - transfer the applicable sales tax portion amount to the debt account you created in step (1) and tag the transaction as either HST or ITC
    4. create reports for each tag

  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @jacobs , as always, appreciate your input.

    The rationale / thinking behind my approach is that twofold in that:

    1. It provides more accurate reporting in that the monthly taxes are reflected in teh month they accrue as opposed to some future month's payment thereof and
    2. It tracks the :delta between the estimated tax liability and the interim tax payment is tracked throughout the year (note: added for clarity, in Canada the monthly estimated taxes are 26.5% of income whereas the monthly taxes submitted are based on the previous year's income so there is a difference!)

    Comments / thoughts?

    Thank you.

  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @Jon, curious, why a cash account over a credit card account?

  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @JamesX714 this is exactly what I am currently doing other than the use of tags to differentiate between HST collected and HST paid (i.e., I run just one report to get the net amount due / owed).

    This is exactly what got me thinking about the best way to track my monthly tax instalments!

    Comments / thoughts?

  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2023
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    It seems that Quicken is still only marketing Quicken Business and Personal as a Windows only product. No marketing of the business features in QMac, even though, as pointed out, that the QMac product is one software with features turned on/off based on subscription level.

    I also would like to see a list of the features that make up the QMac product. @Quicken Janean any list anywhere?

    EDIT: I now see an announcement for this here:

    Have Questions? Help Guide for Quicken for Mac
    FAQs: Quicken MacQuicken WindowsQuicken Mobile
    Add your VOTE to Quicken for Mac Product Ideas

    Object to Quicken's business model, using up 25% of your screen? Add your vote here:
    Quicken should eliminate the LARGE Ad space when a subscription expires

    (Now Archived, even with over 350 votes!)

    (Canadian user since '92, STILL using QM2007)

  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    One more for the brain trust (and hopefully this it) as I cannot crack this nut!

    I create invoices using Quicken with the typical invoice including i) professional fees ii) taxes and iii) expenses. The professional fees and expenses are assigned to their appropriate categories. The taxes are included in the invoice amount and "assigned/tracked" in a Quicken created tax account. 

    When I receive payment, Quicken transfers the amount of payment from the above a/r account to the checking account. The problem is that the amount transferred from the a/r account to the checking account does not reflect the splits / various components (i.e., I do not know how much of the amount transferred from the a/r account to the checking account is in respect of professional fees, taxes, or expense).

    When it comes to tracking the payment (assuming the invoice has been paid in full) into the various components I have:

    1. Amount paid (as reflected in the checking account)
    2. Amount of tax owed (as reflected in the Quicken tax created account)

    What I do not have is an easy way of determining the amount of expenses paid short of taking the difference between 1. and 2. or the specific expense paid (i.e., in the case when two or more expenses are entered as separate line items).

    Would appreciate best practices / comments / thoughts for addressing this problem.

    PS. I do not want to have to create a spreadsheet to track the components as that defeats the purpose of using Quicken!

    Thank you!


  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
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    @JoelC Hopefully you're aware that the newly-released Quicken Mac Business & Personal does not include any features for invoicing. Quicken has stated this is in their plans for the ongoing development of Quicken Mac, but as of now, you can't create an invoice in Quicken Mac. You can certainly create a transaction for each invoice, but not an invoice you can mail/email to a client.

    (I used Quicken Mac, long before these new features were added, to do the books for my wife's professional services business for many year. But I also use a FileMaker Pro database I created for her to track her time and build invoices.)

    Just curious: do you recognize revenue when the services are rendered — e.g. when it is invoiced — or when you are paid? I don't know if Candian accounting is different, but in the US, this is a matter of doing the books on an accrual basis or a cash basis. I always preferred accrual basis, because it lets you match revenues and expenses in the appropriate month, but it does involve some additional bookkeeping work, and it depends on the nature of the business and the volume of the transactions as to what makes sense… if not dictated by law.

    When you invoice a client, you have three components: fees (your income), expenses (reimbursements for money you've laid out), and taxes (billed to the client but remittable to the government). One way to keep track of this would be to keep three different A/R accounts. Each invoice could be created in the Fees A/R account, with three splits to apportion the invoice total to credit revenue, Expense A/R, and Taxes A/R. Then when you record each payment in the checking account, you would similarly record a split to the three A/R accounts. If an invoice is paid in full, this would zero out the A/R in each of the accounts for that client. If an invoice is partially paid, you'd have to determine what they were paying for an apportion it appropriately; a report on clients (Payees and/or Tags) would show the transaction history for each client and any outstanding balance due. It's a fair amount of manual work, because you have to look up and divide each payment. And because payments may come in quickly or over a long period of time, your report date ranges must go back as far as the oldest unpaid invoices, meaning you'll sometimes see a lot of invoiced and paid transactions in your reports. The practicality of this approach may depend again on how many clients and how many invoices are involved. If you have 20 clients with no more than one invoice a month, and they pay within a few months of being invoiced, this approach is manageable; if you have hundreds of clients and hundreds of invoices, ir probably isn't, and a professional accounting program with open-item accounts receivable is probably called for.

    I'm sure others will suggest some different approaches. 😉

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @jacobs appreciate your post and note the following:

    Quicken for Mac: Yes, I am well aware of the capabilities of Quicken for Mac versus Quicken for Windows I have been running Quicken for Mac sine the event beta started (i.e., +/- 2 years ago, Quicken for Windows since 1995 and the two in parallel for teh last +/- 2 years.

    Income Recognition: Canada, like the US, has the concepts of Cash Accounting and Accrual Accounting. The companies that I oversee use actual based accounting. Worth noting, this is **the very reason** I asked the question about tracking the components of an invoice. Yes, it does involve extra work!

    Suggested Approach: Apologies but I may be confused. Is my understanding correct that your suggested approach involves creating 3 invoices for each customer (i.e., on for fees, one for expenses and one for taxes). If not, then please explain how this would work (because I am clearly confused) and f yes, then I don't this will work for my clients (i.e., they want only 1 invoice)!

    In addition, I don't see / understand how one can split the checking account entry because when one accepts a payment from the A/R account into the checking account i) the category in the checking account is shown as a transfer from the A/R account and ii) there is no ability to recategorize / split the transfer in because any attempt to do so results in the wrong transfer amount from the A/R account.

    Sorry but I must be missing something!

  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
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    Apologies but I may be confused. Is my understanding correct that your suggested approach involves creating 3 invoices for each customer (i.e., on for fees, one for expenses and one for taxes). If not, then please explain how this would work (because I am clearly confused) and f yes, then I don't this will work for my clients (i.e., they want only 1 invoice)!

    Sorry I didn't explain my thought well… and I realize I omitted a key additional step. Since Quicken Mac doesn't yet have invoicing, I'm assuming you'd be creating the actual invoices elsewhere, and just entering a transaction in Quicken to represent each invoice.

    The complication is that you're trying to track what clients owe you for each of three components of an invoice, but assume you're also trying to track what you have collected in tax and how you apply expense reimbursements to your business expenses.

    The companies that I oversee use actual based accounting. 

    Was that a typo? Did you mean "accrual" accounting? Or "actual", meaning cash-based accounting.

    I was suggesting one transaction for the entire invoice amount, with splits for the fee revenue, the tax, and the expenses. So let me dig into the latter two before trying to clear up my approach. Let's say you're paying FedEx for express shipping documents to your clients, and you bill someone for $50 of FedEx charges. How do you currently handle the postage/shipping expense? Do you record postage/shipping expense when you pay the FedEx invoice, and reduce the expense when you get reimbursed by the client? Or if you know you're getting reimbursed, do you record the FedEx payment in some sort of suspense/exchange account which gets zero out when you get paid?

    Answer those questions, and then I'll try to re-state how I think you you might do it. It's a kludge, but I think there's a way (or a couple ways) to do it.

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @jacobs

    Apologies, I should have been clearer. I am actually asking this question for my use in Quicken for Windows! I want to get the invoicing / tracking perfected in Quicken for Windows so that it will be easy to port to Quicken for Mac when it eventually has that capability!

    Apologies for the typo, I did mean ACCRUAL BASED accounting.

    As to what I do now that may / may not be relevant as it may not b the best way of doing it! That said, the approach that I currently use in Quicken for Windows is as follows:

    1. I record the FedEx expense when incurred as a charge to my credit card account, Category = Disbursement:Office Expense, Memo = Couriered Item:Client name
    2. I invoice the client at the end of the month for FedEx as part of the invoice from my a/r account, Category = Disbursement:Office Expense
    3. When I pay my credit card bill, I transfer funds from my checking account to my credit card account which results in a zero balance for all entries as at the statement date (i.e., I always pay my credit card bill in full).
    4. When I receive payment from my client, I transfer an amount equal to the payment from teh a/r account to my checking account…and here lies the nature of the problem, I have no way of knowing / tracking what has been paid as the transfer from teh a/r account to my checking does not i) record an amount as fees (i.e., profit), an amount of expenses (i.e., to offset and match the charge in my credit card account) and the amount as taxes (i.e., to offset and match the charge in my tax account).

    As of now, the only way to track things is manually which is the very opposite of what I want to be doing!

    Questions: What is teh better way of tracking items? What is a better approach noting I am happy to pivot to anything that is better / easier tp track!

    Thanks and look forward to your response!


  • Chris_QPW
    Chris_QPW Member ✭✭✭✭
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    Apologies, I should have been clearer. I am actually asking this question for my use in Quicken for Windows!

    You need to be more careful of what forum category/thread you post in. You have posted this in a Quicken Mac category/thread and as such people will be giving answers for that product.

    Signature:
    This is my website: http://www.quicknperlwiz.com/
  • jacobs
    jacobs SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
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    Since I'm not at all familiar with Quicken Windows and how Clients and Invoicing currently work, I think it would be better for me to not offer kludge suggestions which might not take advantage of the capabilities of the Quicken Windows business features.

    You might want to post your questions over in a Quicken Widows category, as I'm sure there are people there who have experience with the Business & Personal product.

    And, of course, there's no guarantee that Quicken Mac invoicing will be implemented the same as Quicken Windows, nor that the importer to Quicken Mac will be properly update to migrate that data. 😉

    Quicken Mac Subscription • Quicken user since 1993
  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @Chris_QPW , sincerest apologies. The conversation morphed over time! Wont happen again!

  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    Sorry I didn't explain my thought well… and I realize I omitted a key additional step. Since Quicken Mac doesn't yet have invoicing, I'm assuming you'd be creating the actual invoices elsewhere, and just entering a transaction in Quicken to represent each invoice.

    The complication is that you're trying to track what clients owe you for each of three components of an invoice, but assume you're also trying to track what you have collected in tax and how you apply expense reimbursements to your business expenses.[/quote]

    Apologies, I should have been cleared. I am actually asking this question for my use in Quicken for Windows! I want to get the invoicing / tracking perfected in Quicken for Windows so that it will be easy to port to Quicken for Mac when it eventually has that capability!

    Was that a typo? Did you mean "accrual" accounting? Or "actual", meaning cash-based accounting.

    Apologies foe the typo, I did mean ACCRUAL BASED accounting.

    I was suggesting one transaction for the entire invoice amount, with splits for the fee revenue, the tax, and the expenses. So let me dig into the latter two before trying to clear up my approach. Let's say you're paying FedEx for express shipping documents to your clients, and you bill someone for $50 of FedEx charges. How do you currently handle the postage/shipping expense? Do you record postage/shipping expense when you pay the FedEx invoice, and reduce the expense when you get reimbursed by the client? Or if you know you're getting reimbursed, do you record the FedEx payment in some sort of suspense/exchange account which gets zero out when you get paid?

    As to what I do know that may / may not be relevant as it may not b the best way of doing it! That said, the approach that I currently use in Quicken for Windows is as follows:

    1. I record the FedEx expense when incurred as a charge to my credit card account, Category = Disbursement:Office Expense, Memo = Couriered Item:Client name
    2. I invoice the client at the end of the month for FedEx as part of the invoice from my a/r account, Category = Disbursement:Office Expense
    3. When I pay my credit card bill, I transfer funds from my checking account to my credit card account which results in a zero balance for all entries as at the statement date (i.e., I always pay my credit card bill in full).
    4. When I receive payment from my client, I transfer an amount equal to the payment from teh a/r account to my checking account…and here lies the nature of the problem, I have no way of knowing / tracking what has been paid as the transfer from teh a/r account to my checking does not i) record an amount as fees (i.e., profit), an amount of expenses (i.e., to offset and match the charge in my credit card account) and the amount as taxes (i.e., to offset and match the charge in my tax account).

    As of now, the only way to track things is manually which is the very opposite of what I want to be doing!

    Questions: What is teh better way of tracking items? What is a better approach noting I am 

  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    Sorry I didn't explain my thought well… and I realize I omitted a key additional step. Since Quicken Mac doesn't yet have invoicing, I'm assuming you'd be creating the actual invoices elsewhere, and just entering a transaction in Quicken to represent each invoice.

    The complication is that you're trying to track what clients owe you for each of three components of an invoice, but assume you're also trying to track what you have collected in tax and how you apply expense reimbursements to your business expenses.[/quote]

    Apologies, I should have been cleared. I am actually asking this question for my use in Quicken for Windows! I want to get the invoicing / tracking perfected in Quicken for Windows so that it will be easy to port to Quicken for Mac when it eventually has that capability!

    Was that a typo? Did you mean "accrual" accounting? Or "actual", meaning cash-based accounting.

    Apologies foe the typo, I did mean ACCRUAL BASED accounting.

    I was suggesting one transaction for the entire invoice amount, with splits for the fee revenue, the tax, and the expenses. So let me dig into the latter two before trying to clear up my approach. Let's say you're paying FedEx for express shipping documents to your clients, and you bill someone for $50 of FedEx charges. How do you currently handle the postage/shipping expense? Do you record postage/shipping expense when you pay the FedEx invoice, and reduce the expense when you get reimbursed by the client? Or if you know you're getting reimbursed, do you record the FedEx payment in some sort of suspense/exchange account which gets zero out when you get paid?

    As to what I do know that may / may not be relevant as it may not b the best way of doing it! That said, the approach that I currently use in Quicken for Windows is as follows:

    1. I record the FedEx expense when incurred as a charge to my credit card account, Category = Disbursement:Office Expense, Memo = Couriered Item:Client name
    2. I invoice the client at the end of the month for FedEx as part of the invoice from my a/r account, Category = Disbursement:Office Expense
    3. When I pay my credit card bill, I transfer funds from my checking account to my credit card account which results in a zero balance for all entries as at the statement date (i.e., I always pay my credit card bill in full).
    4. When I receive payment from my client, I transfer an amount equal to the payment from teh a/r account to my checking account…and here lies the nature of the problem, I have no way of knowing / tracking what has been paid as the transfer from teh a/r account to my checking does not i) record an amount as fees (i.e., profit), an amount of expenses (i.e., to offset and match the charge in my credit card account) and the amount as taxes (i.e., to offset and match the charge in my tax account).

    As of now, the only way to track things is manually which is the very opposite of what I want to be doing!

    Questions: What is teh better way of tracking items? What is a better approach noting I am 

  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    Good morning all!

    I am dropping to share that after much work with Quicken for Business on the Windows side I am looking very forward to the day when Quicken for Mac has / supports similar functionality as it is a fantastic tool and (once setup, which takes work) very easy and intuitive to use.

    I will most certainly make the move to Quicken for Mac (and stop using Quicken for Windows) once my key nits are resolved as I much prefer the ergonomics, functionality (at least as built to dat) and interface of the Mac version. For those interested the there nits are (business functionality [will evolve over time, yay!], make all registers format / look the same, and reports with memo field search functionality [now a planned request]) .

    In the meantime — as I have been doing for the last 2+ years — I will continue to run / use Quicken for Mac in parallel with Quicken for Windows so I see the functionality evolve and know when to make the move.

    Thank you to @jacobs , @Chris_QPW , and all the others who have helped me along teh way. It is greatly appreciated!

  • volvogirl
    volvogirl SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
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    RE: When I receive payment from my client, I transfer an amount equal to the payment from teh a/r account to my checking account…and here lies the nature of the problem, I have no way of knowing / tracking what has been paid as the transfer from teh a/r account to my checking does not i) record an amount as fees (i.e., profit), an amount of expenses (i.e., to offset and match the charge in my credit card account) and the amount as taxes (i.e., to offset and match the charge in my tax account).

    Hi again, Just want to point out 1 thing about the reimbursed fees. Don't know for Canada but in the US, you don't need to track each item that is being paid for. You report the total gross income you received including the reimbursed fees/expenses. Then you just expense the total fees you paid and taxes paid, reimbursed or not. Then you will pay tax on the Net Profit.

    I'm staying on Quicken 2013 Premier for Windows.

  • JoelC
    JoelC Member ✭✭✭✭
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    @volvogirl

    Hi again, Just want to point out 1 thing about the reimbursed fees. Don't know for Canada but in the US, you don't need to track each item that is being paid for. You report the total gross income you received including the reimbursed fees/expenses. Then you just expense the total fees you paid and taxes paid, reimbursed or not. Then you will pay tax on the Net Profit.

    Hi back, always nice to hear from you!

    Canada is the same! The question comes from my personal desire to track things, part of my professional training!

This discussion has been closed.