Accepted pending transaction edits disappear

djreiswig

I have the current version of Quicken for Windows. I have it set so pending transactions show in the register. If I edit the information for the transaction such as adding a memo, the transaction turns dark & the hourglass disappears as expected. I assume this means it's the same as if I had manually entered it.

Later on when I return to Quicken after the transaction has posted and OSU has run, the memo field information I previously is missing and has been replaced with info that appears in the memorized payee list (since this payee is memorized). I don't think the memorized payee list should override the manual edits I have made. I keep my accounts current and would like to have all pending transactions appear in the register. The only way I can get this to work is to edit them in some way, but then my edits don't stick. Frustrating.

I've also had goofy behavior with extra blank lines showing up between transactions in the register when working with pending transactions. For example, after the last posted transaction there will be a blank line & then the next line has the first pending transaction. Normally the only blank line always appears at the bottom of the register. It's impossible to cause blanks to appear in the middle of the register.

Quicken Kristina

Hello @djreiswig,

To help troubleshoot this issue, please provide more information. When did you first notice this issue? Which version of Quicken were you using when the issue started? Is this happening in just one account register, or in multiple? Do you have automatic entry turned on or off in the problem account register(s)? If automatic entry is on, when new transactions download, you'll see a blue dot next to each new transaction. If automatic entry is off, new transactions download to a section beneath the register.

Have you noticed anything that seems to trigger the blank line behavior? For instance, does this happen only when you edit a pending transaction? If possible, would you please provide a screenshot of these extra blank lines in the register (making sure to redact any personal information)? If needed, please refer to this Community FAQ for instructions on how to attach a screenshot. Alternatively, you can also drag and drop screenshots to your response if you are not given the option to add attachments.

I look forward to your reply!

djreiswig

I always have the current update as soon as it's available. I just noticed the missing memo line info right before I posted to the forum. I have only noticed this happening in one credit card register, since it's the one I use most. It could happen in other ones, but I don't recall. I have it set so that the pending transactions appear in the register automatically, but they are in gray. When I edit the memo field, the transaction turns black. I am getting the blue dot once the transaction posts, but this is when the memo lines are changed. It's like the pending transaction is being completely replaced by the downloaded posted transaction.

The blank lines are related to when pending transactions are modified. The selection bar doesn't move to the next transaction after the pending one is entered, and sometimes blank lines appear above them.

Not sure what a picture of a register with a blank line in the middle of the register will show you. It's pretty much like it sounds. Filled in lines then a blank line, then a few more filled in lines. Normally the only blank line is at the bottom.

I like the pending transaction feature, but I wish I could just have them entered automatically like the posted one are. Maybe a red dot instead of a blue dot would notate them. I don't need a list or hourglass icons, or the ability to keep them out of the balance. The way I look at it, does it matter if the transaction has posted or not? I already spent the money.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply,

I tested in my Quicken to see if I could replicate the issue. When I add a memo to a pending transaction, Quicken changes it to a manual transaction (black with the red pencil icon next to it). Is that the same as what you see when you edit your pending transactions? Is the memo column the only column that you edit? If not, what other edits do you make?

I'm not getting any blank lines though. Could you provide the exact process you're going though when you edit the pending transactions? I'm just wanting to verify the process you're using so I can mirror it exactly and see if the blank lines appear in my Quicken also. Additionally, do these lines appear with every pending transaction you edit, or only some?

Thank you!

Boatnmaniac

When I edit a pending transaction I get the same results as @Quicken Kristina described with the edited pending transaction being converted to a manual entry transaction so it is no longer a pending transaction. Then when the posted transaction later downloads it gets matched to that manual entry transaction and everything is good.

I've often wondered if downloaded pending transactions are actually entirely separate from the later downloaded posted transactions. So when the posted transaction downloads it is a new transaction, not a pending transaction that has been changed to a posted transaction. And then the pending transaction is deleted from the register at the same time.

If this hypothesis is correct and if @djreiswig's edited pending transactions are not being converted into a manual entry transaction, then when the posted transaction later downloads the pending transaction is simply deleted and replaced by the posted transaction. So, the entered memo in the pending transaction is not being replaced by anything. It is instead that the entire pending transaction is being replaced by the posted transaction.

What caused me to think this is that there have been times (not just in my experience, but also as others have posted) that sometimes when a posted transaction downloads the previously downloaded corresponding pending transaction does not go away. That then resulted in there being duplicate transactions in the register…one was the pending transaction and one was the posted transaction. That made me think that they are totally separate and independent transactions.

So, for me, the question is the same as asked by @Quicken Kristina: When @djreiswig edits a pending transaction does it remain a pending transaction or is it converted to a manual entry transaction?

djreiswig

It is converted to a manual transaction. Then somehow when the transaction is posted it's like it was never there before, but just newly downloaded.

I'm not sure on the steps that cause the blank lines. It just randomly happens. They go away when I reopen the file, so I guess it's not a huge deal.

Maybe I'll just turn off the automatic entering of pending transactions and enter them manually like unused to do. It would be nice to have them automatically appear, but the process seems to be buggy. Probably not worth the time to try and figure it out.

djreiswig

Started with 3 pending transactions today. I forgot to get a picture of them before any edits, but they were all 3 in the register in gray text with the hourglass icon.

Here's the process I used to get the blank lines. I'm waiting until they post and then I'll reply back with the results of the missing memo field.

Change memo of Walmart $30.12 to "a"

Transaction text becomes dark

Change memo Walmart $23.29 to "a"

Transaction text becomes dark

Delete memo in Wamart $30.12

Now shows 2 Walmart $30.12 transactions and a blank line where the Homestead Convenience transaction was

Notice the line to enter a new transaction has the date, but the line above it is blank

I also noticed (you can't see it because I covered the balances) that the running balance on the right is correct for the incorrect transaction amounts that are displayed. So the balance on the line of the duplicate transaction is the balance of the line above minus $30.12. So it's not just a painting issue, but Quicken actually thinks I've entered 2 transactions that are identical.

Click sort by date twice to get the register to refresh.

(Tried selecting a different account, but the register looked the same when I reselected the offending account.)

Now the 2nd Walmart ($23.39) transaction is back with the correct amount and the blank line now shows the pending Homestead Convenience transaction again.

Enter memo in Homestead Convenience transaction.

Transaction text becomes dark.

Register looks normal now.

Now for the memo test. To be continued…

Change memos in 3 transactions to a,b,c respectively.

Will memos stay when transactions post?

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your replies and the screenshots,

I'm still not able to replicate the issue you're seeing, which indicates that this may be a file-specific issue. To start troubleshooting for a file-specific issue, please try validating and/or super validating your data file.  Please save a backup file prior to performing these steps. 

Validate: 

1. File
2. Validate and Repair File...
3. Validate File
4. Click OK
5. Close the Data Log
6. Close Quicken (leave it closed for at least 5 secs)
7. Reopen Quicken and see if the issue persists.

If the issue persists, proceed to Super Validate. If the issue is resolved after performing validation, then please disregard the instructions to Super Validate. 

Super Validate:

1. File
2. Hold CTRL + Shift and click Validate and Repair File...
3. Super Validate File
4. Click OK
5. Close the Data Log
6. Close Quicken (leave it closed for at least 5 secs)
7. Reopen Quicken and see if the issue persists.   

Please let me know how it goes!

Boatnmaniac

I still have not been able to duplicate this issue. I agree that this could be a file-specific issue. But it might also be a Quicken installation issue. Validate and Super Validate can resolve some file issues but they can also resolve some software installation issues.

If the Validate and Super Validate do not resolve the issue for you, you might want to try uninstalling Quicken and then downloading a fresh copy of Quicken from https://www.quicken.com/activate and installing it.

djreiswig

Okay. Strange that it just happens in the accounts that download pending transactions and only after this feature was introduced.

I'm waiting for the transactions to post to see if my memos disappear. Then I'll try validating.

djreiswig

Just randomly discovered this option. I suppose this will fix my disappearing memo issue. Wonder when this was added.

Boatnmaniac

That option to not update the memo when downloading was added in 2023….maybe mid-year. It was a pretty big deal here in Community when it was added.

I didn't think about it when seeing your thread here because I had become perhaps too focused on "pending transactions" instead of on the Memo field. I'm glad you found it. Please be sure to let us know if checking this box resolves that part of the issue for you.

I'm still scratching my head regarding the other issues you mentioned. Have you had an opportunity to try Validate and/or Super Validate, yet?

djreiswig

I don't frequent the forum much unless I'm having issues.

Have not attempted the Validate or Super Validate yet. Was waiting to see how the memo edits turned out with the checkbox selected.

Guess it must not do what I think. The transactions I marked a,b,c & d have posted and the memos are all blank now. This is the register when I selected the account today with no other changes. There is one new pending transaction and one old one that I have added e to the memo field, but it has not posted yet. I predict that the memo will also disappear when it does.

djreiswig

Today the eBay transaction posted. Interestingly enough, the entire transaction was changed except for the amount and the date. The payee now says PayPal and the category switched from misc to Electronics. The memo is also now blank, the e is gone.

Edit: It looks like Quicken automatically created a renaming rule so that explains the payee change, but not the other changes.

Something is going on with the way these pending transactions are being handled, because I've not had this problem previous to activating this feature. Guess I'll give the validate a try, but I don't have high hopes.

djreiswig

Ran validate. No issues. Ran super validate with all options selected. No issues found.

I'll see if the pending transaction issues continue.

Boatnmaniac

Today the eBay transaction posted. Interestingly enough, the entire transaction was changed except for the amount and the date. The payee now says PayPal and the category switched from misc to Electronics. The memo is also now blank, the e is gone.

Or maybe, like I posted earlier, the Pending transaction and the Posted transaction are 2 totally separate, distinct transactions? I don't know this for a fact but that has been my suspicion for many months now because:

• Pending transactions will often have different payee, category and memo information than the Posted transactions will have.
• If the transaction is for a restaurant the Pending transaction will often not include the tip amount but the Posted transaction will include it.
• Pending transactions sometimes do not delete when the Posted transactions download creating duplicate transactions of sorts.

So, to me it seems like the Posted transaction is not an updated Pending transaction but, instead, is a totally different transaction that replaces (or is supposed to replace) the Pending transaction.

It's good you checked the Renaming Rules. You can edit or delete those as needed.

You might also want to check your Memorized Payees to see if any of them might need to be edited or deleted.

Chris_QPW

I would say with almost certainty that the pending and posting transactions are different (no such thing as a system to "update a transaction").

Can't prove it these days though (but if you look at the downloaded ID I will bet they change {will check this when my test pending transactions post}), because even in the Cloud Sync log there aren't any details about the transactions (I believe this is because they moved a lot of the processing of transactions to the Quicken servers to provide things like the showing of pending transactions).

UPDATE: after looking at some pending transactions Downloaded ID, there is no doubt they aren't the same transaction look at the downloaded IDs of the pending transactions and the posted ones, and you will see they are radically different:

Note that I'm sort of just trying to test this after having this off for a long time, just to see if I can make any sense on what is going on. I like others found this feature to be "unreliable" and as turned it off. I did try to use it for several weeks or more when it came out.

Here is how I think the system works.

Somehow the pending transactions are marked in the data downloaded from the financial institution. That allows the process/Quicken to filter out the pending transactions either for displaying them differently in the register/Downloaded Transactions tab or if the feature is set off, to completely remove them.

Next unlike their first attempts at this, these transactions are supposed to never affect the Online Balance, so that reconcile hasn't changed.

Now what I believe should happen if the pending transactions aren't entered into the register is that Quicken will simply remove the existing Pending transactions before presenting the new list of pending transactions it gets (I say should happen, because we have seen where it doesn't always remove old pending transactions for some reason). To me this makes the most sense, no trying to match up pending to posting, for the various reasons you stated @Boatnmaniac where the amounts, dates, and even payee might be different.

So, what happens when you change a pending transaction? As far as I can see it becomes a regular "existing transaction" that is treated the same as any other existing transaction as far as matching to a downloaded transaction.

Look what happened to one of my pending transactions when I changed the date to one day older:

I think that confirms my belief in that area. There is no longer any connection between the "pending" and the "posting" transaction that will follow. Matching is the only way they are going to be combined in the future.

Now on the subject of the payee/memo. As you can see Chase doesn't send any memos so I can't check that, but the payee names look just like I would expect. Besides @Boatnmaniac's suggestion to check your renaming rules/memorized payees I would also turn on the Downloaded ID, Downloaded Payee and Downloaded Memo fields and check them too. That might show if the problem is in the downloaded data or in Quicken doing something with it like the renaming/memorized payees.

Boatnmaniac

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20466328#Comment_20466328

Thanks for piping in here. Interesting information that seems to confirm much of what I'd posted. Glad to see we are both pretty much of the same opinion on this matter.

I do have Pending Transactions enabled in my data files and elected to show them in the account registers but to not include them in the account balance. I find that to be very helpful when I either forget to manually enter a purchase transaction or as an early flag that I might have manually entered some of the transaction data incorrectly (usually with regard to the price…my vision is not as good as it used to be).

I did turn off enabling Pending Transactions to be included in the account balance a long time ago because (as many others have posted) I was spending a lot of time troubleshooting issues caused by that. (I still have it enabled in a test file and have noticed that the issues caused by it have not been resolved.)

Chris_QPW

Yeah, I noticed that when I re-enable it that I have the options to affect the balances off too, so I was definitely going down that path too.

I believe the main reason I completely turned it off before is between my wife spending on a lot of little items and the fact that Chase takes so long to post pending transactions I was getting a lot of them, and just decided it was better just to see them when the posted. I think the "not deleting" some of the pending transactions when they finally posted also added to this.

That is also a reflection "of the times". Chase pays basically nothing for savings account interest, so instead of having a "short term savings account" and trying to manage cash flow between it and the checking account what I decided to do is just have the checking account, the pennies lost aren't missed. And now for the most part since the checking account is basically only filled occasionally from long term savings, I just really don't worry about the day-to-day balance of it (until the transactions post). This is also possible because most of our transactions go through our credit cards. Which gives 20 to 30 days to look at them before they actually are paid. Then again, I always maintained about $1000 extra in the checking account just in case. I have never played the game of "just enough", it just isn't worth it.

djreiswig

Its good to see that others are having issues with the pending transaction function. Hopefully @Quicken Kristina will return with some answers.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your replies,

When I check our help article on Pending Transactions, it says the following:

What happens when a pending transaction clears?

When a pending transaction is no longer pending, it will either be listed as a regular transaction (if the transaction clears) or will disappear if the pending transaction is removed but no charge occurs. If the transaction clears for a different amount than the pending transaction, the pending transaction will still disappear in favor of the cleared transaction.

That confirms the pending will disappear in favor of the cleared transaction under certain circumstances, but doesn't confirm if the pending will always vanish in favor of the cleared transaction.

That said, when I tested by editing some of my pending transactions, the edits were not overwritten by the posted transaction, once it downloaded into Quicken. I can try testing again, paying specific attention to the memo column, but it will take a few days for the transaction to clear so I can see what happens. In the meantime, I reached out internally regarding this issue, to get more information on whether the behavior you're seeing with the memo disappearing from pending transactions once the posted transaction downloads is expected behavior.

You haven't mentioned anything further about the blank lines that appear after you edit a pending transaction. Did the Validate/Super Validate correct it, or is that issue still happening?

Thank you!

(CBT-489)

Chris_QPW

One thing I have noticed is that the "processing" is different when the pending transaction is turned into a manual transaction.

If I was renaming a new payee from a regular downloaded transaction would ask if I wanted to create a new renaming rule. This doesn't happen for changing a pending transaction into a manual one.

Chris_QPW

I have had the pending transactions on for a few days now, and now I remember the major reason I turned it off.

Pending transactions don't match existing transactions, which is bad enough, but if I remember correctly this is where some duplicated transactions are introduced (note that I'm also showing that the online balance is off, but that might just be a Chase thing.).

Basically, what happens is that the payments post in their credit card accounts, so that creates a linked transfer to the checking account (the "existing transactions"). The pending ones come in and ignore that these are there and as such you are double counting them. This is why I would never use this feature, at least not with it affecting the account balances.

I should know in a day or so, if this does in fact create duplicate transactions or not.

Chris_QPW

Actually, I looked in another account and see it did cause duplicates.

On top of that I saw something very strange on the original problem of edited memos going away.

I first downloaded another account that I had edited the memos on, and the "existing/changed" transactions did go away and instead got "New" transactions with one of the memos not changed so at first, I thought that I wasn't seeing the problem. Then I realized that it was a new payee and I had saved it as a memorized payee and had accidentally saved it with the memo.

Once I realized this, I decided that I decide to go back to a backup from yesterday, remove the memo from the memorized payee and try it again. Unfortunately, I accidentally deleted the screenshot of this. But the transactions were marked as New.

That is important to note, because on my second attempt they came down as "New Match", and the memo was preserved.

So, for some reason on the first attempt the edited transactions seem to have been removed and replaced by a new transaction (which doesn't wouldn't have had the memo, if I hadn't made that mistake). And then on the repeat it did do what we assumed and do an actual match.

I think this is what to look for when the edits go away, see if it is marked as New or New Match.

To me this also implies that there is some other kind of complication going on that we don't understand. Maybe the "Cloud server" is doing something in the background too.

Boatnmaniac

@Chris_QPW - You did a pretty good job documenting many of the issues I found with pending transactions, particularly when the pending transactions were included in the account balance.

I still keep pending transactions enabled but do not allow them to be included in the account balance. The issues encountered seem to be significantly fewer and when they do occur they really aren't very problematic since they can be easily deleted or edited as needed.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your replies,

When I tested again, the memo did not disappear. The pending transaction downloaded.

I edited it to include a memo.

Then when the cleared transaction downloaded today, it correctly matched and did not overwrite that memo.

So that we can investigate this issue further, please navigate to Help>Report a Problem and send a problem report with log files attached, and if you're willing, a sanitized copy of your file. While you will not receive a response through this submission, these reports will help our teams in further investigating the issue. The more problem reports we receive, the better.

@Chris_QPW,

Part of what you're observing (and provided screenshots for) seems to be related to the issue with pending transactions not being removed after the cleared transaction has downloaded (discussed in this thread). Which financial institution are you seeing the duplicate pending transactions with? Have you recently deactivated and reconnected the affected accounts? Have the duplicate pending transactions been an ongoing issue or did it happen just once?

Thank you!

(CBT-489)

Chris_QPW

@Quicken Kristina the duplicates might indeed be related to the fact that in this process I used a backup file for getting back to a point where I could test. Note I didn't have to deactivate/reactivate this time, but using a backup might trigger the same kind of results. I do believe in the past I have seen duplicates when I did have to deactivate/reactivate.

As for the pending transaction edits being removed. Like I said I think it is related to the fact that I saw that the edited-pending transactions seem to have been removed, and I got the posted transactions as "New". When I saw this, I tried to reproduce it by going to a backup file and do again, but this time the posted transactions were "New Match" and the edits were still there.

I have no idea why it would do it as "New" the first time, but from a backup it would retain the edit and post as "New Match". Note when I tried it a third time I got "New Match".

All of this makes me suspect that there is more going on in the background on the Quicken server.

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply,

When I saw the issue last month, I noticed similar behavior, although it may have been showing New Match due to matching to bill reminders.

I forwarded the issue to the proper channels for further investigation and resolution. If you haven't already done so, please go to Help>Report a Problem and send a problem report with log files attached.

(CTP-11767 for this issue with duplicate pending transactions)

Quicken Kristina

Hello @djreiswig,

So that our team can further investigate the issue you're reporting with edits to pending transactions disappearing when the cleared transaction downloads, please navigate to Help>Report a Problem and send a problem report with logs attached and a sanitized copy of your file.

Thank you!

(CBT-489)

djreiswig

I'm still seeing the blank lines appear in the register in re: to the pending transactions. Also still seeing the disappearing memos. Have done Validate and Super Validate.

The pending transaction feature is obviously still buggy and in need of repair. I'm not in charge of debugging your software, so I'll just deactivate the feature until you release a bug fix for pending transactions. Then maybe I'll give it another try.

[Removed - Off Topic]

Quicken Kristina

Thank you for your reply,

If you consider turning pending transactions off a suitable fix and you don't want to troubleshoot further or provide the information our team requested, then there's nothing more I can do to assist you.

Thank you!