Quicken for Mac 2017 v4.5, 4.5.1, 4.5.2 & 4.5.3 Released

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Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    Matt said:

    As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

    How's it feel to be a guinea pig?  Without even being notified?

    ...since Quicken is now choosing to use this model (which is a reasonable strategy). 

    I think it's unconscionable that Quicken would make it's own users beta testers without their knowledge.

    I find that to be a horrible practice.

    Now, I've beta tested Quicken in the past.  I don't anymore because I find the entire beta testing process extremely convoluted and confusing now.  But to have users unsuspectingly be beta testers for an upgrade...well all I can say is "Wow". 
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Matt said:

    As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

    @gmalis1 I think you misunderstood my meaning by taking my words out of context...the strategy to use a small group in the wild is sound. BUT as I indicated, NOT without users knowledge and intentional participation. So I am supportive of the principle of the strategy, not the current execution.

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  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    Matt said:

    As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

    Beta testing is beta testing.  If users want to become beta testers, they know how to do so.

    Unwittingly is NOT the way to test software.  Quicken's method of "let's roll out this update to some users and see if anything gets mucked up" is just plain horrible.

    I don't like it with or without the users knowledge.  That's what the beta test site is for.
  • RickO
    RickO SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    Matt said:

    As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

    Ah, but you do have the option to choose. You can decline the update. (I know, you have to put up with the reminders every time you open the app.) I routinely do this with mission critical software until such time that I see on the forum that the rollout has been smooth and there don't seem to be any major problems.
    Quicken Mac Subscription; Quicken Mac user since the early 90s
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Matt said:

    As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

    @RickO, the problem is users often do not realise they are dealing with a partial roll-out...when an update is presented, as far as they know, the update is production ready, not still going through some additional, albeit last minute testing.

    The proper way, as Matt pointed out, is to make this clearly visible with an opt-in approach. That is how many small- to mid-size software companies do it (typically because resources are limited), where there is an opt-in option to receive notification when a new beta is ready.

    In the case of Quicken, they could identify these "betas" as the last version before they go to full release, in other words, have a first round internal beta, as is currently the case, then have a final round beta to a larger mass.

    This enables users to choose to participate in a later stage beta where the major kinks are worked out and all that is hopefully left are smaller or less obvious kinks.

    So @gmalis1, the opt-in beta preference still becomes your control to participate or not (and it should be off by default). This way users are not unwitting and unsolicited testers. So it can meet the satisfaction of all users. 

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  • zwzlife
    zwzlife Member ✭✭
    edited October 2017
    Where is new Loan feature? Our mortgage has been paid off, but we do have a Line of Credit.
  • mistertheplague
    mistertheplague Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Matt said:

    As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

    users often do not realise they are dealing with a partial roll-out
    Windows users do.
    Quicken Premier Mac and Windows
  • smayer97
    smayer97 SuperUser ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Matt said:

    As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

    How does it work on the Windows side for users to be aware?

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  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited November 2017
    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Just downloaded 4.5.3, kept my fingers crossed , file being used in 4.4.3 opened with apparently no issues , at least none I could imediatley pin point. Ran an account status update on all accounts, so far so good. As far as what John is reporting might you have several backup files to try? Its  mere speculation but perhaps something got corrupted during the upgrade.  
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Moreover, it zeroed out my file with over 20 years of data!

    Luckily I was able to restore the data and the older version of Quicken and restore functionality with only a small loss of data.

    But, something is seriously wrong with this version and I would warn users not to install it.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Notably, the data file is stored on an AFP server. This has worked fine for many years and I hope that capability has not been removed.
  • Quicken Marcus
    Quicken Marcus Employee ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Matt said:

    As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

    Guys, these are NOT betas.  We have an extensive beta program as many of you know since you're in our beta program.  We truly believed this version was ready.  Our first beta of the loan feature was 3 months ago.  We've been testing it for a long time.  We typically roll out to a small group 1 day and then to everyone the next day because we don't see any issues so most don't even notice.  However, if we do find an issue I'm not going to roll it out to everyone and impact 100% of customers.  I'm sorry for the inconvenience but this is the right thing to do.
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    John I note that prior to launching the update a backup was performed. So you have access to the latest data which you can restore from the backup folder
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Concordman, you may be right. I went to a Time Machine backup and re-entered the two transactions I had done right before installing the update. 
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    I can confirm that the new version works when the file is on a local disk. Trying to access the data file over afp results in the problems noted above.
  • RickO
    RickO SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Remote hosting of the data file has never been supported. You should consider yourself lucky that your file didn't become corrupted before now.
    Quicken Mac Subscription; Quicken Mac user since the early 90s
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Above, where I said it asks for the Quicken.com password, I was referring to the Intuit ID password.
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Apologize for my not knowing but what is an AFP server? If its something like dropbox you are going to have issues . Prudent to back up to your local drive. QM does not work well with cloud related backup situations.

    If AFP is some sort of cloud based situation than you are very fortunate QM did not crash for you earlier.
  • Quicken Marcus
    Quicken Marcus Employee ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    John, There should be a backup file under the Automatic Backups folder labeled (Pre-Update).  We always make a backup of your file before we do any database migration so you should be able to restore that file and not lose anything.  It sounds like something went wrong during our file migration?  Did you see the database migration screen and did anything happen during that period?  This is the first case I've heard of this happening to a customer so it's not a general 4.5.3 issue.  Something happened during this phase on your particular machine with your particular data.  Were you on Wifi when you did this?  Possibly you lost connection to the AFP server briefly during the migration?
  • RickO
    RickO SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    AFP = Apple File Protocol

    Actually, cloud based backup is fine, as long as the backup is a compressed file as are the automatic backups that Quicken creates. What is not fine is storing the actual data file in the cloud.
    Quicken Mac Subscription; Quicken Mac user since the early 90s
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    AFP is AppleShare. My wife and I have been using it this way for 20 years so we could both access Quicken from our laptops. We verbally confirm only one of us is in the program, to avoid issues. It will be a shame if that ability is now ended.
  • RickO
    RickO SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    As I mentioned above, storing of the file remotely has never been supported. You're lucky this didn't bite you before now. Perhaps since the AFP server is local to the machine you're accessing from, it was less risky. But still not advised.

    A better approach is to store the file on one machine (perhaps in a user account dedicated to Quicken), and then access that account via a remote login tool such as Back To My Mac, or TeamViewer. 
    Quicken Mac Subscription; Quicken Mac user since the early 90s
  • Concordman
    Concordman Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Rick, thank you for clarifying this backup issue 
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Quicken Marcus: When this happened I was accessing the file over ethernet (although we don't always use ethernet). I did see the migration message, and it appeared to complete correctly since the first time (after entering my Intuit ID password) the data file opened fine except it opened a prompt to add a new account. I exited that dialog, quit, and restarted, and after I entered my Intuit ID I got a blank file. 
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    P.S. to Quicken Marcus: when I did the subsequent tests (performing the migration on the host machine so the file was a local copy) I saw the same behavior when I tried to access it remotely: the request for the intuit id password, and the offer to establish an account. Even though my data file was being displayed, somehow quicken seemed to think I had just started a new file.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    RickO, I understand the rationale not to officially support access off a server due to the possibility of corruption through simultaneous access or network failures. Up until this version, Quicken 2017 has recovered just fine from network failures, as one might expect with a modern database. One would also think a Quicken could set a mutex lock to prevent simultaneous access. 
  • RickO
    RickO SuperUser, Mac Beta Beta
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    They could perhaps set up a mechanism to deal with simultaneous access, but the fact is they never have done so. Quicken does, in fact, detect when the file has been accessed while already open, but does not handle the situation gracefully.

    But there is a further problem. That is: the data file is actually a Mac Package object. As such it contains a large number of individual files within. When the package is accessed from multiple user accounts, eventually a permissions error creeps in and corrupts the file. This has been reported many, many times over the years.
    Quicken Mac Subscription; Quicken Mac user since the early 90s
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Another problem that can be / was solved with careful setup, i.e. both of us log in using the same user account.
  • Unknown
    Unknown Member
    edited May 2017
    John Pane said:

    Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

    Anyway, for many many years, Quicken worked fine when accessed with care over AFP. Hopefully, that unofficial / unsupported feature isn't going away today.
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