Quicken for Mac 2017 v4.5, 4.5.1, 4.5.2 & 4.5.3 Released

mistertheplague

Matt said:

As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

How does it work on the Windows side for users to be aware?

It's assumed by seasoned Windows users that each new version of QW is going to have more bugs than an open-air picnic. Therefore, users often hold off on upgrading for two or three releases (or more, depending on the carnage being reported on the forum).

This came up in the data-lockout thread as one of the most stringent objections to being forced to upgrade every year starting with R1 -- a prospect that rightly horrifies any Windows user with more than one release under his/her belt. 

mistertheplague

Matt said:

As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

How does it work on the Windows side for users to be aware?

It's assumed by seasoned Windows users that each new version of QW is going to have more bugs than an open-air picnic. Therefore, users often hold off on upgrading for two or three releases (or more, depending on the carnage being reported on the forum).

This came up in the data-lockout thread as one of the most stringent objections to being forced to upgrade every year starting with R1 -- a prospect that rightly horrifies any Windows user with more than one release under his/her belt. 

mistertheplague

Matt said:

As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

Edit: should read "with one or more version under his/her belt."

Unknown

I am using 4.5.3 and notice a couple of quirks.  

1. Difficulty typing in sub level categories for additional payment items.  When I create the mortgage payment, I specify the individual items pro-rated on a per month basis versus an escrow transfer - i.e. I specify property taxes and home insurance as two additional payment items.  When trying to specify a category that is a subcategory (e.g. Tax:Property), it will not allow me to type it in - I must select it before I type the colon.  I have a 3 level Tax structure.  Tax:HTax:Federal etc, Tax:JTax:Federal etc, then Tax:Property to separate my wife's and my taxes but roll up to Tax.  Property is a shared tax so it is separate.  When I get to the colon, it switches to the second level category in alphabetical order which is HTax, but then any further typing is based off of that second level category only - i.e. it locks me into the HTax subcategory instead of allowing me to specify Property as the second level category.

2. Auto Loan additional item with Loan interest is ignored.  I created an auto loan that when the payment is calculated it was slightly off (because of an extended period of time before the first payment - less than a dollar.  When I tried to add an additional loan item and associate it with the "Loan Interest" category just to reconcile the difference, it was completely ignored in the total - even if I changed the category to something else on the same entry.  Only if I created the additional line using another category did it stick (and changing it to loan interest would make it be ignored again).

mistertheplague

Just downloaded 4.5.3. Question: can I make a copy of my QM17 file? In QW you can copy your .QDF and mess around with the copy. That way if you do something untoward, your original remains unborked

Unknown

mistertheplague said:

Just downloaded 4.5.3. Question: can I make a copy of my QM17 file? In QW you can copy your .QDF and mess around with the copy. That way if you do something untoward, your original remains unborked

On a Mac, selecting a file, then pressing the OPTION key and dragging the file to another location will make a copy of that file...and leave the original intact and in it's original location.  

mistertheplague

mistertheplague said:

Just downloaded 4.5.3. Question: can I make a copy of my QM17 file? In QW you can copy your .QDF and mess around with the copy. That way if you do something untoward, your original remains unborked

Worked. Thx gmalis1

smayer97

Matt said:

As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

sounds no different than the Mac, other than you are used to the process.

@Quicken Marcus is this simply not semantics? I truly understand the caution. It makes sense but does the fact that you are testing the waters with batched releases suggestive of a trialed testing in the wild with a few thousand, instead of the smaller sample in the official beta cycle? That is typically still considered beta in many circles.

smayer97

mistertheplague said:

Just downloaded 4.5.3. Question: can I make a copy of my QM17 file? In QW you can copy your .QDF and mess around with the copy. That way if you do something untoward, your original remains unborked

Or select File > Duplicate (or CMD-D) to make an in place copy.

mistertheplague

mistertheplague said:

Just downloaded 4.5.3. Question: can I make a copy of my QM17 file? In QW you can copy your .QDF and mess around with the copy. That way if you do something untoward, your original remains unborked

Not seeing that cmd in the QM17 menu, smayer97. Assume that's in Mac Finder menu?

mistertheplague

Matt said:

As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

sounds no different than the Mac, other than you are used to the process.

Perhaps. I've been a QW user for years; I only started using QM last fall. I purchased QM17 immediately after release and had no problems with it -- which is to say that the things about QM17 that didn't (and still don't) work weren't supposed to work.

Assuming that things in QW that haven't worked were supposed to work, on the other hand, would probably strike long-time Windows users as a little naive.

Some years it's almost like the QW team got to the end of a dev cycle, had a release deadline and said screw it as they shipped a time bomb, knowing it was going to detonate at some point.

Q15 and the mobile fiasco was the worst I can recall. The forum and support lines were was crammed with livid and panic-stricken users whose data files had become hopelessly corrupted, or in a few cases seemed to just evaporate.

Has that been going on over on the Mac side? I don't recall noticing it. 

mistertheplague

Matt said:

As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

sounds no different than the Mac, other than you are used to the process.

Perhaps. I've been a QW user for years; I only started using QM last fall. I purchased QM17 immediately after release and had no problems with it -- which is to say that the things about QM17 that didn't (and still don't) work weren't supposed to work.

Assuming that things in QW that haven't worked were supposed to work, on the other hand, would probably strike long-time Windows users as a little naive.

Some years it's almost like the QW team got to the end of a dev cycle, had a release deadline and said screw it as they shipped a time bomb, knowing it was going to detonate at some point.

Q15 and the mobile fiasco was the worst I can recall. The forum and support lines were was crammed with livid and panic-stricken users whose data files had become hopelessly corrupted, or in a few cases seemed to just evaporate.

Has that been going on over on the Mac side? I don't recall noticing it. 

brucel

John Pane said:

Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

@JohnPane - Apple has been slowly moving away from AFP to SMB with SMB being the default protocol since El Capitan so you may consider migrating to SMB if your server/NAS supports it.  That said, I doubt that AFP vs. SMB is the root cause for your problem though.

RickO

mistertheplague said:

Just downloaded 4.5.3. Question: can I make a copy of my QM17 file? In QW you can copy your .QDF and mess around with the copy. That way if you do something untoward, your original remains unborked

Yes, he's referring to the Finder command.

mistertheplague

As Snoopy FC reported upthread, the loan wizard appears to ignore the user-entered starting date in favor of the current date:





However, right-clicking the first scheduled transaction in Bill Reminders, selecting Edit Schedule, and changing the start date appears to correct this bug.

Quicken Marcus

Matt said:

As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

smayer97, this is not just semantics.  When we release to customers, we believe everything is working as designed and that people won't run into issues.  We release in waves, like every other software company, because it's prudent to do so.  We don't consider this testing but are realistic that when something goes out to millions of people who each have different ways of working with the product that some issue might be found.  And because we release in waves, it means we don't impact the entire user base if an issue is found.  The bottom line, in hindsight, is we didn't do a good enough job of catching these issues before release.  I don't disagree with that sentiment.   My point is that it is absolutely NOT part of our process to ship buggy software with the expectation that early customers will find issues.  Clearly, it may feel that way with this release but I want everyone to understand that this is NOT what we intended or expected.

Quicken Marcus

Matt said:

As a consultant who helps clients on macOS, the way you have handled the 4.5 rollout has been frustrating. I have clients who have several machines within a single office, some of whom have received the update, some of whom have not. These are really beta releases. 4.5.1 and 4.5.2 are really bug fixes for a 4.5 beta, not actual updates. You might want to consider giving people an option in Preferences to get beta updates, rather than releasing beta software to a small and unsuspecting number of clients. 

smayer97, this is not just semantics.  When we release to customers, we believe everything is working as designed and that people won't run into issues.  We release in waves, like every other software company, because it's prudent to do so.  We don't consider this testing but are realistic that when something goes out to millions of people who each have different ways of working with the product that some issue might be found.  And because we release in waves, it means we don't impact the entire user base if an issue is found.  The bottom line, in hindsight, is we didn't do a good enough job of catching these issues before release.  I don't disagree with that sentiment.   My point is that it is absolutely NOT part of our process to ship buggy software with the expectation that early customers will find issues.  Clearly, it may feel that way with this release but I want everyone to understand that this is NOT what we intended or expected.

Quicken Marcus

zwzlife said:

Where is new Loan feature? Our mortgage has been paid off, but we do have a Line of Credit.

Are you talking about a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC).  This is typically considered a credit card from a Quicken perspective since it typically acts like one.  If you want to add a Loan you would add an account and pick a loan type.  This will only appear in 4.5.x releases which we haven't fully released to everyone yet.

Quicken Marcus

John Pane said:

Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

We haven't changed anything in regards to accessing a Quicken file from a remote server and don't have any plans on blocking this setup. I'm glad that it doesn't sound like some sort of file corruption.  It sounds like what is happening is when you launch the app it thinks you're adding a new file and it takes you through the new file creation flow which is why you get a blank file.  This shouldn't have impacted your old file.  Hopefully, you were able to just go to the Recent file menu and open it up again or restore from the backup.  Anyway, I still want to track down why you're in New File mode.  Any other observations?  I'm assuming you didn't see the screen that asks how you want to create a new file either from scratch or by importing from various formats.  This is true, right?

Quicken Marcus

John Pane said:

Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

We haven't changed anything in regards to accessing a Quicken file from a remote server and don't have any plans on blocking this setup. I'm glad that it doesn't sound like some sort of file corruption.  It sounds like what is happening is when you launch the app it thinks you're adding a new file and it takes you through the new file creation flow which is why you get a blank file.  This shouldn't have impacted your old file.  Hopefully, you were able to just go to the Recent file menu and open it up again or restore from the backup.  Anyway, I still want to track down why you're in New File mode.  Any other observations?  I'm assuming you didn't see the screen that asks how you want to create a new file either from scratch or by importing from various formats.  This is true, right?

Quicken Marcus

mistertheplague said:

As Snoopy FC reported upthread, the loan wizard appears to ignore the user-entered starting date in favor of the current date:





However, right-clicking the first scheduled transaction in Bill Reminders, selecting Edit Schedule, and changing the start date appears to correct this bug.

Thanks for reporting this issue and also for providing a workaround.  We're investigating. When I tried this using your same numbers, my date changed too but to 7/31 and not to today so it 's doing different things for some odd reason.  We'll continue to investigate what is going on here and I'll report back.  Thanks again.

Quicken Marcus

Jeff said:

I am using 4.5.3 and notice a couple of quirks.  

1. Difficulty typing in sub level categories for additional payment items.  When I create the mortgage payment, I specify the individual items pro-rated on a per month basis versus an escrow transfer - i.e. I specify property taxes and home insurance as two additional payment items.  When trying to specify a category that is a subcategory (e.g. Tax:Property), it will not allow me to type it in - I must select it before I type the colon.  I have a 3 level Tax structure.  Tax:HTax:Federal etc, Tax:JTax:Federal etc, then Tax:Property to separate my wife's and my taxes but roll up to Tax.  Property is a shared tax so it is separate.  When I get to the colon, it switches to the second level category in alphabetical order which is HTax, but then any further typing is based off of that second level category only - i.e. it locks me into the HTax subcategory instead of allowing me to specify Property as the second level category.

2. Auto Loan additional item with Loan interest is ignored.  I created an auto loan that when the payment is calculated it was slightly off (because of an extended period of time before the first payment - less than a dollar.  When I tried to add an additional loan item and associate it with the "Loan Interest" category just to reconcile the difference, it was completely ignored in the total - even if I changed the category to something else on the same entry.  Only if I created the additional line using another category did it stick (and changing it to loan interest would make it be ignored again).

Thanks for reporting this.  We're investigating.

Quicken Marcus

John Pane said:

Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

Or did you get into the Create a new file flow because your file was corrupted and couldn't be opened?

Tony Goldsmith

Is the new version off-line again.  I got a notice yesterday of version 4.5.3 and I didn't immediately download and install it.  When i went to upgrade today, I am getting the message that I have the most recent update, 4.4.3.

Unknown

John Pane said:

Previously, when I launched Quicken it would re-open the previously opened file. Now it doesn't and when I select a file to open it asks not only for the file password but also the Quicken.com password. 

Here are the details on what I happened, to the best of my recollection. 

The first time I attempted to upgrade, I was working remotely. After migrating, it required my Intuit ID and password, then opened and displayed my existing data AND prompted me for an account. I dismissed the new account dialog, quit, and opened the file again. It again requested my Intuit ID and password, presented my existing data, and the new account dialog. I repeated this a couple of times.

My memory is imperfect on this point, but I think the next thing I did was to open Quicken on the host machine. That was still the older version of Quicken and I think it attempted to migrate the newer version of the data file back to the older version. Eventually it reported an error. This may have been what caused the data loss.

After restoring the data file and application from backups, I proceeded to update Quicken on the computer hosting the data file, and then opening my data file This migrated the file and appeared to have been successful. I then upgraded quicken on the remote computer and attempted to open the data file remotely. Again, it requested my Intuit ID and password, then displayed my old file and prompted me for a new account. I repeated this at least one time with the same effect.

In summary, migration without data loss appears to be possible, as long as I make sure that all of the computers are updated before they attempt to access the already-migrated file. The problem that I cannot seem to work around is, for some reason when accessing the file remotely Quicken is repeatedly asking for the Intuit ID and password and then showing the new account dialog. Given I have a strong password that I have not memorized, I must look it up in my password database. Needless to say, this is a tedious process to go through every time I wish to access Quicken.

For the time being, I have reverted back to the prior version so that my workflow can continue as usual, hoping the issue can be identified and fixed.

Thank you.

mistertheplague

Earlier today, when updating accounts I got the following persistent tag sync error:



Deleting the tag in question from the Tags window was necessary to resolve the error.

krm11

Jeff said:

I am using 4.5.3 and notice a couple of quirks.  

1. Difficulty typing in sub level categories for additional payment items.  When I create the mortgage payment, I specify the individual items pro-rated on a per month basis versus an escrow transfer - i.e. I specify property taxes and home insurance as two additional payment items.  When trying to specify a category that is a subcategory (e.g. Tax:Property), it will not allow me to type it in - I must select it before I type the colon.  I have a 3 level Tax structure.  Tax:HTax:Federal etc, Tax:JTax:Federal etc, then Tax:Property to separate my wife's and my taxes but roll up to Tax.  Property is a shared tax so it is separate.  When I get to the colon, it switches to the second level category in alphabetical order which is HTax, but then any further typing is based off of that second level category only - i.e. it locks me into the HTax subcategory instead of allowing me to specify Property as the second level category.

2. Auto Loan additional item with Loan interest is ignored.  I created an auto loan that when the payment is calculated it was slightly off (because of an extended period of time before the first payment - less than a dollar.  When I tried to add an additional loan item and associate it with the "Loan Interest" category just to reconcile the difference, it was completely ignored in the total - even if I changed the category to something else on the same entry.  Only if I created the additional line using another category did it stick (and changing it to loan interest would make it be ignored again).

Similar in my case regarding the auto loan.  I have a new auto loan that was set up as a 60-month loan, but is actually a 61.5 month loan, with the loan issuer's website calling it a 61-month loan.  Car was purchased 2/28/17, first loan payment 4/14/17 - giving a ~1.5 month interval before the first payment. I couldn't enter a loan length of 60.5 or 61.5 and I couldn't get the loan payment Total amount to match the monthly payment amount set up by the loan issuer, no matter whether I adjusted the start date, maturity date, compounding period, additional amounts, etc. I aborted the conversion to loan account and decided to try again when I have more time.  Next step may be to monkey with the interest rate - rather than entering the annual percentage, enter the monthly or daily percentage to match the compounding period and/or payment schedule?  

Quicken Marcus

Jeff said:

I am using 4.5.3 and notice a couple of quirks.  

1. Difficulty typing in sub level categories for additional payment items.  When I create the mortgage payment, I specify the individual items pro-rated on a per month basis versus an escrow transfer - i.e. I specify property taxes and home insurance as two additional payment items.  When trying to specify a category that is a subcategory (e.g. Tax:Property), it will not allow me to type it in - I must select it before I type the colon.  I have a 3 level Tax structure.  Tax:HTax:Federal etc, Tax:JTax:Federal etc, then Tax:Property to separate my wife's and my taxes but roll up to Tax.  Property is a shared tax so it is separate.  When I get to the colon, it switches to the second level category in alphabetical order which is HTax, but then any further typing is based off of that second level category only - i.e. it locks me into the HTax subcategory instead of allowing me to specify Property as the second level category.

2. Auto Loan additional item with Loan interest is ignored.  I created an auto loan that when the payment is calculated it was slightly off (because of an extended period of time before the first payment - less than a dollar.  When I tried to add an additional loan item and associate it with the "Loan Interest" category just to reconcile the difference, it was completely ignored in the total - even if I changed the category to something else on the same entry.  Only if I created the additional line using another category did it stick (and changing it to loan interest would make it be ignored again).

For the first item above regarding nested categories.  We think you probably have Short Names turned on.  Please try changing the default to Long Names and see if it works closer to the way you expect.  You can find this setting on the General tab in Preferences or in the category drop down menu.  This is how it has always worked since we added short named categories.  If this isn't it, please provide more information.

In regards to the second item on loans.  Can you provide a little more detail?  I think part of the issue might be that we don't currently support auto loans if they use a model called Daily Simple Interest which calculates interest differently than mortgages.  Do you know if your auto loan uses this method?  Also, it would be good to better understand if the interest is off every month or just for a single month.  If for a single month you might be able to fix it in the payment and not bother with the loan model.  If it's off in the model, we don't currently support a way to change the calculated interest.  You are correct that we probably should allow one to add loan interest into the split line and to have that affect the payment total but it wouldn't work the way you might expect because these items don't impact the fundamental loan model so the amortization table would still be off.

Quicken Marcus

mistertheplague said:

As Snoopy FC reported upthread, the loan wizard appears to ignore the user-entered starting date in favor of the current date:





However, right-clicking the first scheduled transaction in Bill Reminders, selecting Edit Schedule, and changing the start date appears to correct this bug.

We still can't reproduce the issue where the next payment switches to the current day.  Is anyone else seeing this?

Quicken Marcus

Tony Goldsmith said:

Is the new version off-line again.  I got a notice yesterday of version 4.5.3 and I didn't immediately download and install it.  When i went to upgrade today, I am getting the message that I have the most recent update, 4.4.3.

We release in waves.  If you get the message again, don't dismiss it.  As long as that message appears, you can upgrade even if we've taken it down.