Reduce the cost?

Bruce Leavitt

I am not sure how long I have used Quicken, it would be nice to offer a discount. New users get by for something like $48 and the renewal cost is at least 75 dollars with tax or more. The banner screen you do not want to use makes things a little more frustrating in not wanting to renew subscription. You hardly get anything that is updated. Maybe the Government needs to look at this idea of companies charging the way they do, instead of actually buying the program as they use too.

Quicken Anja

Hello @Bruce Leavitt,

For price and discount inquiries, please contact Quicken Support directly by phone for further assistance. Our phone support agents will have the necessary tools to look into this for you, that this channel, unfortunately, does not.

Thank you!

splasher

Maybe the Government needs to look at this idea of companies charging the way they do, instead of actually buying the program as they use too.

You never bought the program, you bought a license to use it with online banking ability for a length of time (typically about 3 years after that version was released). Buying the program would cost you millions of dollars and you could have any change made to it that you wished, but something tells me you don't have that type of money.

Quicken has just changed the length of the license.

I won't argue whether the cost is too high or unfair since I don't know what their corporate costs are. I do believe that the screen grab with the renewal message is a bit much, the single bar across the top would be enough, but it is what corporate Q decided to do.

jacobs

New users get by for something like $48 and the renewal cost is at least 75 dollars with tax or more.

@Bruce Leavitt New users get a "teaser" price to get them to start using the program. If many of those users stick around after a year, the company is able to grow its user base. Such introductory prices are very typical across many products and industries.

I am not sure how long I have used Quicken, it would be nice to offer a discount.

So then everyone who is a "loyal user" would get a discount for renewing? In other words they would just be lowering the price, right? Why would Quicken shower discounts/lower prices on its users? They'd take in less revenue, and thus be less able to support their employees who update their programs and develop new features and products.

The only reason a company would do that is if they felt that a lower price would attract so many more users that they would end up with more revenue overall. But the realities of such price reductions are difficult to achieve. Let's do a quick hypothetical. Let's say that they make $50 per subscription after deducting the cost of manufacturing & distribution (e.g. packaging sold in retail stores, servers used for digital downloads, etc). And let's say they have 2 million subscribers. So that's $100 million in income after the cost of goods sold. Now let's say they agree to give every renting subscriber a $10 discount (e.g. they effectively lower the price by $10). So now they have $40 x 2 million = $80 million in income after the cost of goods sold. In order to gain back the $20 million they lost with the lower prices, they need to add 500,000 new subscribers. And that's just to break even; they'd only do it if they came out ahead, so let's say they'd need 600,000 new subscribers to make this enough of a positive for the company to do it. That's an increase of 30% of their subscriber base. Do you think pricing Quicken $10 less would spur 600,000 new users to adopt Quicken? I don't.

Now, my numbers are just round hypothetical numbers to illustrate that lowering the price requires a big gain in sales to offset the loss in revenue. But you can be certain they have finance people who do such calculations much more precisely to assess whether a lower price would be net positive for the company, and they clearly don't think it would help their bottom line to lower their price.

That said, there's always a tipping point with pricing going too high as well. This year, they imposed a large 20% price increase, and I'm sure the bean counters at Quicken have been measuring the impact on renewals. Because at some point if the price gets too high, they'll have the opposite of what I just described: they'll lose more subscription revenue from fleeing customers than they can make up with the higher price per subscription.

You hardly get anything that is updated.

I suppose this is subjective and will vary from user to user. I use Quicken Mac, and I have experienced a steady pace of tangible improvements to the program over the years since subscription pricing began. I understand Quicken Windows users have probably seen less dramatic gains because the program is much more mature; modernizing an old program like Quicken Windows to keep it running and replace outdated technologies requires a lot of work resulting in the program working just as it did in the past — that is, a lot of under-the-hood work to modernize and fix the code so that users don't even notice anything changed. Adapting to a technology change such as Dark Mode — which has been delivered for Quicken Mac and not yet delivered but supposedly a work in progress for Quicken Windows — takes a lot of time and money. Modernizing transaction processing infrastructure so financial institutions will continue to allow Quicken to connect to their servers similarly takes a lot of time and money just to maintain what, for users, is the status quo.

Maybe the Government needs to look at this idea of companies charging the way they do, instead of actually buying the program as they use to.

As @splasher noted, you never actually bought the program in the past, even though it may have felt that way. We users still license the program as we did in the past, but the terms are different. But the reality is that Quicken wasn't making enough money under its old pricing scheme. It was withering when it was owned by Intuit, which led them to sell it off. And the new owners have done a number of things to grow revenue, from creating new products (Simplifi), improving support, and boosting prices.

There's nothing for the government to be involved in here. Quicken isn't a monopoly. It's free to set its pricing however it chooses — and consumers ultimately accept or reject products based on pricing, functionality, and availability of other alternatives.

The bottom line here is that you — and many other users — aren't happy with how much Quicken costs today. It became more expensive when subscription pricing took hold after 2017, and the price has gone up somewhat significantly. and in the end, we each must to an evaluation of the value we perceive we get from Quicken. For some of us, looking at a cost of $6 month relative to other products and services we buy doesn't seem too unreasonable for the usefulness we get from the program. For others of us, who may use only a small portion of Quicken's features, there comes a point at which the expense isn't justifiable for what the program accomplishes for us, and financial institution websites or other tools may suffice at no or lower cost.

eqpu

You hardly get anything that is updated.

I have not found any new significant investment related features after Quicken 2012 Premier to the best of my knowledge. I had suggested them multiple times before and after Quicken was sold but to no avail as none have been implemented as per me.

e.g. No tags like those allowed for spending transactions are allowed for investment transactions, No filter to choose Security held > 0 (Currently held security) or Security held = 0 (Fully sold security). Instead filter such as security containing some alphabets or phrases as part of the name is available. I did not find any use for these at all.

NotACPA

In the Investment portfolio, there's an option to HIDE closed positions … so your "Security held > 0" already exists.

eqpu

The bottom line here is that you — and many other users — aren't happy with how much Quicken costs today.

The previous non subscription versions did not tie you to a specific time period for using the product. The subscription versions do tie you to a time period after which you cannot use the product and which is a regressive step as per me. e.g. I use Quicken 2012 Premier with all manual data entry and use none of the online features. It does NOT make sense to me to upgrade if nothing new is available to me and which will force me to pay every year to use same old product with new name.

At the same time, having all my financial data sorted for the past twenty to twenty five years in an older version and not able to continue working with it is too much of a risk for me to stop using a perfectly working product even if it is an older version like Quicken 2012 Premier by replacing it with a yearly cash burning new version.

Quicken is and was a gold standard for personal finance software. I do not know why people did not accept it in masses or why the company whether Intuit or current owners did not market it properly,

NotACPA

"'The subscription versions do tie you to a time period after which you
cannot use the product and which is a regressive step as per me. "

UNTRUE.

If you let your subscription expire, Q will put up a "nag message" to renew (which will take up about 1/4 to 1/3 of your screen, but it still works.

The only exception is if you bought the "Starter Edition", which does become "Read-only" … but that's clearly stated in the agreement that you OK'd when you installed Q.

volvogirl

I'm still using Quicken 2013. Works fine for me. 2013 is the last good version before they started requiring an ID and since they went to the subscription model.

Boatnmaniac

@Bruce Leavitt - Perhaps your best bet to get a discounted subscription is to search online for Quicken prices at various retailers like Amazon, Costco, Sams Club, Best Buy, New Egg, Walmart, Office Depot, etc. Most of the sale prices you will find will be for new subscribers but you should find some nice discounted prices ranging from 20%-40% off that can be used by current subscribers. Just be sure to closely read the listing and look at the picture to make sure that it does not say it is for new subscribers.

After you place your order you should get the activation code (either via email or in a CD box) from that retailer. You can use that activation code to extend your subscription (if it is within 6 months of the current subscription expiration) or to renew it when it expires.

eqpu

"'The subscription versions do tie you to a time period after which you
cannot use the product and which is a regressive step as per me. "

UNTRUE.

If you let your subscription expire, Q will put up a "nag message" to renew (which will take up about 1/4 to 1/3 of your screen, but it still works.

I apologize for making an incorrect statement. As I have never used any subscription version of Quicken, I was under impression that like most subscription products these days, Quicken will go read only or have reduced functionality after the subscription period is over.

In any case, I am happy with Quicken 2012 Premier and will stay with it or at the most go to Quicken 2013 Home and Business if I require any of those features in future.

eqpu

… this idea of companies charging the way they do, instead of actually buying the program as they use too.

It just comes down to perpetual license (aka buying the program) vs annual or some other fixed period license.

eqpu

In the Investment portfolio, there's an option to HIDE closed positions … so your "Security held > 0" already exists.

True. In Investment portfolio, it is there and I can use it.

It is just that I cannot use this feature in saved or customized reports as I do not find it available there.

I use a workaround by saving two reports, first for fully sold and the second for currently held securities. I select the securities manually for each.

eqpu

I'm still using Quicken 2013. Works fine for me. 2013 is the last good version before they started requiring an ID and since they went to the subscription model.

Same for me with Quicken 2012 Premier. Only thing missing was sync with mobile devices. In the last 10 years, non Quicken mobile options are better.

Boatnmaniac

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20428643#Comment_20428643

The historical non-subscription license was for full online services usability for up to the 3 yr product support term (or less if it was not bought when the version first is released) and for manual use for as long as your system supported the software.

The subscription license is essentially the same except that the full online services support is for a hard 12 months from the time of activation….there is no "or less" window. And, except for Starter, it can continue to be used manually for as long as your system supports the software.

Other than the online services part of the license changing from a max of 3 yrs to a firm 12 months there is essentially no difference in the licensing. Both have a "perpetual license" to be used manually once the online services have expired. Or am I misunderstanding the point you are trying to make?

eqpu

Or am I misunderstanding the point you are trying to make?

You are right. No misunderstanding. Just that the license period has reduced making Quicken more expensive with more nagging after the license period is over.

except for Starter, it can continue to be used manually

Any version lower than Premier does not allow recording of investments, so it is of limited use unless someone uses only for no investment transactions like bank, cash and other such transactions.

Boatnmaniac

Any version lower than Premier does not allow recording of investments, so it is of limited use unless someone uses only for no investment transactions like bank, cash and other such transactions.

You are correct that Starter does not include investments functionality.

But Deluxe (one level below Premier, one level above Starter) does track and record investments. The difference between Deluxe and Premier regarding investments is that Premier has some additional investments bells and whistles over Deluxe but the basic investments functionality exists in it. There are many users who are perfectly happy with Deluxe's investments tracking and reporting capabilities.

eqpu

But Deluxe (one level below Premier, one level above Starter) does track and record investments.

This is helpful to know as my understanding was Deluxe does not have investment recording features.

May be I read the extra bells and whistles part in Premier and did not bother to read other features about Deluxe. My feeling is that the extra bells and whistles will be mostly with online related features and for manual entry users like me, Deluxe might be almost same as Premier.

If at all, I will upgrade to Quicken 2013 Home and Business and not beyond that as per the recommendations I have received as of now. I will upgrade to Quicken 2013 Home and Business in case I need to use those features in future and Home and Business covers all features of Quicken as per my knowledge.

In any case, I have the Quicken Installable files for Quicken 2012 Premier and Quicken 2013 Home and Business along with the following patches. (available in the question below)

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/7949529/can-someone-confirm-quicken-executable-sha1-hashes-and-patch-levels-for-quicken-2012-and-2013

As per your previous post, it should be safe to upgrade the current Quicken 2012 Premier Quicken Data Files (.QDF files) from Quicken 2012 Premier to Quicken 2013 Home and Business after installing the above 2013 Mondo patch to upgrade from Quicken 2012 Premier to Quicken 2013 Home and Business.

I am thinking of doing that in near future to use additional home and business features.

nerdindenial

When Quicken did not charge a yearly subscription fee we complained about the bugs and lack of new features.

A Quicken support person told me that back then that they didn't have enough revenue to properly support the product. That's why Intuit divested themselves of it - Quicken was dragging down their profitability.

Now that they have the yearly subscription fee cash flow, they have no excuse to NOT improve the product.

I see some improvements, but sometimes at the cost of stability.

I don't like the yearly fee, but it's not as much as I spend on TurboTax.

eqpu

Now that they have the yearly subscription fee cash flow, they have no excuse to NOT improve the product.

Absolutely agree with this.

Chris_QPW

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20429123#Comment_20429123

Personally, I think they are trying. But are a several reasons why people don't perceive it as improving.

1. Problems that are out of Quicken Inc's control. The number one complaint about Quicken would have to be downloading of transactions failing in some way. Almost none of this is in their control. It mostly in Intuit's (which is Quicken Inc's aggregator) or the financial institution's control.
2. Features that have been added aren't ones that this person is using, or they have already forgotten what it was like not to have it and have trivialized it being added to Quicken.
3. Quicken Windows is a very old program, that is complicated, but even more so because of its age the code has to terrible to work with, with all the mixed-up different APIs that have to be in it.
4. It must be extremely hard to attract experienced programmers, and retain them. Quicken Inc isn't as big as people want to believe. The whole company is probably about 200 people. But even more to the point good programmers can pick jobs that "enhance" their careers and are interesting to them. A 40+ year old program support doesn't exactly look that great on a resume or peek a person's interest in the "latest tech".
5. I will also state that I don't believe that Quicken Inc at least on the Windows side has good "follow through". They tend to introduce features that either are not possible with the current situation to be 100% and they are OK with that, or they implement a feature, and it needs to be refined/completed and they don't seem to ever get around to doing that. This is definitely an area where I wish they would improve. But when they are committed to put out a given feature, they can be very much pursue it to the "ends of the Earth". The pending transactions feature is such a case. Multiple tries over years, and I think it is pretty well working at this point.

jacobs

And to add to @Chris_QPW's comment from the perspective of a Mac user, I see very tangible improvements every year. Of course, that's because the bar was much lower with the rewritten-from-scratch Quicken Mac, and they still have a long way to go to implement all the features user want — but there's no denying they are putting in the time and money to advance development of Quicken Mac. Unfortunately the development team for the Mac is small, so the progress isn't as fast as anyone would wish, but they keep chipping away at the list of feature requests, resulting in a better program year over year.

eqpu

It must be extremely hard to attract experienced programmers, and retain them. 

...

the code has to terrible to work with, with all the mixed-up different APIs that have to be in it.

I have a feeling it has much more to do than the above reasons and which are not apparent to us normal users of the product.

To give a comparison, Microsoft which will not have much difficulty attracting best programmers and will have much higher success with integration with Microsoft Windows and even other APIs also had come out with a personal finance program called Microsoft Money to compete with Quicken in 1991 and editions which were available were

Microsoft Money Essentials
Microsoft Money Plus Deluxe
Microsoft Money Plus Premium
Microsoft Money Plus Home & Business

Sounds familiar right.

International editions were also available e.g. France, UK, International etc.

They sunset Microsoft Money in 2010 saying personal finance comprehensive toolkit demand has declined.

They also had made available for some time on Microsoft website sunset edition for free which is fully functional minus support and online features. As per Microsoft forums, It is still available on CNET and there are people using the sunset edition on Windows 10 and Windows 11.

They will not even have funding difficulties if they really wanted to continue the program. In spite of this, it did not work out. So, there might be business reasons other than above.

Maybe personal finance programs are not used by masses like Microsoft 365. So, Intuit or Microsoft did not want to continue with them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Money?wprov=sfla1

jacobs

Quicken is used by about 2 million users. Microsoft Office/365 is estimated to be used by 1.2 billion people. Somewhat different resources available for each of them. 🤣

Chris_QPW

They will not even have funding difficulties if they really wanted to continue the program. In spite of this, it did not work out. So, there might be business reasons other than above.

Microsoft dropped MS Money in 2010.

Intuit sold off Quicken in 2018 (or so, don't remember the exact date).

One has to ask themselves why?

The main reason has to be money. Quicken revenue was so small in comparison to the other Intuit products that it was included with several others in their finance reports, and still it that was a tiny fraction of their revenue. And supporting Quicken is a pain. No real standardized protocols for doing the online services, Quicken users believing that they have a great impact on Intuit and the financial institutions when in fact they are a tiny fraction of their customer base. You can imagine how tiny the revenue would have looked to Microsoft. They tried to take over the industry and were blocked from doing it by buying Intuit, and only got at most 1/2 piece of a non-growth industry.

Desktop personal finance software isn't a growing business, which is a death sentence to any public (as in sell stock) company.

Stockholders want to see increase profits, not "stable income".

eqpu

Quicken revenue was so small in comparison to the other Intuit products that it was included with several others in their finance reports, and still it that was a tiny fraction of their revenue.

When Quicken first came out in 1983 on DOS (as per Wikipedia), they came out only with Quicken. AFAIK the other products were introduced much later and became revenue generators compared to Quicken.

Chris_QPW

https://community.quicken.com/discussion/comment/20429211#Comment_20429211

Yes, and the company was even smaller than it is today with Quicken Inc. Time changes things.

leishirsute

Quicken allows multiple people whom you trust with your Quicken ID to use the Quicken program. They are not locking it into one person's use. The cost can greatly be diluted depending on the number of people using a single copy of Quicken.

Also, the last three renewals for me have been with at least a 15% discount offered by Staples or Office Depot for the DVD version that is not for new subscribers only.

Also, a person could sign up as a new customer for every renewal to get the new customer discount. They would need to have a different email address each time. Kind of a hassle IMO.