Is Quicken for Mac 2007 (QM2007) Compatible with High Sierra (macOS 10.13)?

tmplee · June 2018

I believe it is possible to restore a complete system (including the OS) from a Time Machine backup, so long as your recovery partition is working, but that isn't the same as booting from it. What I don't know is if you can "restore" a complete Time Machine backup to a new, fresh external drive, using whatever working Mac you have, and boot from that if your main drive is dead.

jacobs · June 2018

Sorry to disagree with one point above, but it's absolutely incorrect that Quicken 2007 doesn't save anything to disk until the program is quit. (I was sure of this, but to prove it in a simple test, I opened a Quicken 2007 data file, entered a transaction, waited a little, and then Force Quit Quicken. Upon re-launching, Quicken had retained the transaction I entered.) Like most database programs, data is written to the database as data is changed, sometimes with some buffering delay; this is why there is no "save" command in Quicken.

What you may have experienced is that the way Quicken updates its data file, it may not always be detected by Time Machine if the file is still open, and so Time Machine may skip backups you'd expect.

@NanB, you ask where Quicken 2007 is putting its backup files. The answer is: wherever you tell it to. Open Quicken Preferences, go to File Backup, and where it says Quicken Backup Folder, click the Choose button to select a folder, (or see where it it currently storing backups). As others have mentioned, using a program like SuperDuper does a whole disk backup ever time it runs, whereas Time Machine is keeping only a record of what has changed since previous backups, and keeps this in a format only Time Machine can read. Consider these backup types complementary, not exclusive, especially if you take the drive you use with SuperDuper too an off-site location for added security.

jacobs · June 2018

@tmplee: No, a Time Machine backup does not contain the operating system. The recovery partition loads a mini-version of the operating system, and proceeds to download the OS installer program, which then installs the operating system; then Time Machine can restore your data, preferences, etc. (Assuming everything works correctly, the effect is the same as restoring your entire Mac from Time Machines, but that's not exactly what is happening. One thing to be aware of is that the OS installed by the recovery partition may be a newer dot version of the OS than you had on your hard drive; that' s not usually a problem, and shouldn't be with Quicken, which is rarely affected by Apple's dot updates.)

Unknown · June 2018

@jacobs - I don't know I can agree with the idea that Quicken is saving as a database without quitting - at least in my experience. By force quitting, you are quitting and the backup is saved. Its a bit hard to prove because if you leave the program open for days, weeks, months, your latest entries are still there (sort of like if you typed a Pages document, never saved it but kept it open and minimized.) But if you look at the saved backups you have in Finder, you'll see that your last one saved will say "Modified" and it won't have your new time or date you are adding things to it (actually modifying it.) That will only happen when you quit (forced or regular) and the backup saves and new Backup file with the current date and time you just quit.

Even if you look at the Application itself in your Applications folder, you'll see that it hasn't modified in ages. I don't believe its remembering your entries like an Access database or something.

Maybe I'm wrong and its magically saving data as entered, but I've always been under the impression that each time you re-launch QM2007 it was launching from the last data file used (and saved on Quit) - no?

jacobs · June 2018

No, sorry, Force Quit is the equivalent of pulling the plug (or battery) out of your Mac -- nothing is saved, because the application is instantly quit.

The Application in the Applications folder is never modified (unless there's a new version of the program). Quicken (and almost all modern apps) do not write to and modify the application itself; there are external support files for things it needs to remember, such as the pathname to the last data file opened.

Again, it's not "magically saving data"; it's the way almost every database program, including Quicken, works. It's very different than a document-based program like Pages. This is why document-based programs have Save commands, and a database like Quicken does not.

Again, if you want to see this in action, create a new Quicken 2007 data file. Enter a transaction. Quit. Re-launch. Your entry is there. Now enter another transaction. After you click Record or press Enter, do a Force Quit, or even pull the plug out on your Mac (well, I don't actually recommend you do that, but it would have the same effect). Restart Quicken. Your second transaction will be there.

Just think of it from a common sense standpoint: would it make sense that a program like Quicken could lose an hour's worth of work, with no way to save what you're doing except to quite the program? No program would be devised that way; it would have to have a Save command to allow you to save periodically as you go along. But Quicken, like FileMaker Pro and other database programs (except those which work entirely in RAM), do not have a Save command, because they are frequently saving transactions to the database.

smayer97 · June 2018

QM2007 ALWAYS SAVES DATA AS IT IS ENTERED (except maybe the last entry or so if there is a crash or Force Quit)!!! The only thing that ALL versions of Quicken do not do is create a BACKUP while it is still running...it currently only does it on QUIT.

That said, you can add your VOTE to Add More Options to Automatic Back-ups.

The first 3 features in that IDEA thread have been implemented. Marcus has agreed that option 4 is a good idea. So, let's have him add this in too...

First, click on the underlined link above to go there, then click VOTE at the top of THAT page, so your will vote count for THIS feature and increase its visibility to the developers by seeking to have the features you need or desire end up in the latest version.

While you are at it, you may want to add your VOTE to related IDEAS found on the
List of Requests for Data and File Management Features. Click on the underlined link, then follow the instructions to add your vote to more related ideas. Your VOTES matter!

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

Unknown · June 2018

@jacobs & @smayer97 - I stand corrected

Glad to know its saving your continual input, so the only thing gained by the backups on Quit is just that - a backup. I love this forum!

tmplee · June 2018

I was both and right and wrong. I agree, after my own experiment too, that Quicken 2007 does save transactions to the disk file when they are entered (or possibly after a short delay.) The problem with backups, however, is that Quicken does not change the "modified" date and time stamp on the file until it is quit. So, Time Machine is not going to catch that things have been changed and back up. If you leave Quicken running continuously, yes, all transactions will be recorded to the file on disk, even before a crash of some kind — but you won't be able to go back to any previous versions of your data other than those captured each time you quit Quicken in the past (or manually caused a backup.) In my experiment I duplicated a good Quicken file and renamed it to "quickentest". I entered some transactions in an account and let it sit for a couple of hours. I then duplicated the file again. The modification date/time stamp on both files was some time yesterday. I opened both of them and indeed both included the new transactions. I suppose the other thing one could do is write a little shell script that "touched" (there's a shell command for that) the file every now and then to force Time Machine to back it up by changing the modification date/time. Hmmmm... I just might do that!

smayer97 · June 2018

Odd about Time Machine.... I am one that keeps QM2007 open for days at a time (and I do use Quicken automated backups on Quit)... I've done testing in the past but I had to double check... my Time Machine backs up my main data file every day and the time stamp does not change yet the content does... I am still on Mac OS 10.6.8. Not sure is that is a factor...

can anyone else confirm if their Time Machine misses or backs up their main data file if kept open?

Unknown · June 2018

I'm a bit confused about the Time Machine question, as I've always thought TM was backing up hourly exactly how your Mac was at that hour. Soooo, theoretically wouldn't it also be capturing that Quicken data file that has the latest additions even if it were always open and running? I don't know how you could test this...

Unknown · June 2018

The question is whether the data file is updated and saved "along the way" or do you have to exit Quicken and then Quicken saves the data file.

If the former, leaving Quicken open and running for days would result in the data file not writing to your hard drive and thus not being backed up by Time Machine.

Probably an easy way to test this is to do some work in Quicken Mac, keep it open and then go to Finder and look at the date and time stamp. What does it say?

If it writes as you go along, then the date and time stamp should be up to date. If it writes when you close Quicken, it should have a date and time stamp from when Quicken was last closed.

Time Machine will only backup files that have been changed...according to the time stamp. If there is no change in the date time stamp, the file doesn't get copied to your Time Machine backup.

Unknown · June 2018

Apparently, Quicken Mac writes to your hard drive "as you work".

I opened Quicken Mac 2017. Then closed it. Opened Finder. The Quicken data file showed a time of 4:23 PM MST.

Opened Quicken Mac 2017 again...and left it open. Opened Finder. The Quicken data file showed a time stamp of 4:25 PM MST.

RickO · June 2018

The Quicken file is actually a special type of folder called a "package". When you look at its timestamp, you are actually looking a folder's timestamp which doesn't always update promptly, even though one or more of the files contained within did have their timestamps updated.

tmplee · June 2018

RickO — thanks for that reminder! I knew that the Quicken data file was a package, but I didn't know that if an internal file of a package is modified, the time stamp on the package itself isn't necessarily modified to reflect that. (It appears to me, but I haven't done extensive exploration of it, that in the case of Quicken files, the package time stamp only gets updated when Quicken does a save of the "whole" file.) Anyway, I can confirm for everyone what others have reported that a) quicken does update the data to disk "on the fly", and b) Time Machine will back up such an updated file. At about 5:50 PM I made a copy of a quicken file that that had been saved this morning, opened the copy, and entered a transaction into one of the accounts. I left quicken running and came back about 8:15 PM. The time stamp on the file had not changed. But I looked into the package and saw that the "data file" now had a timestamp of 5:50 PM!. I went into Time Machine and found a backup set at about 7:30 PM. I restored the whole quicken file from that backup to a different location and lo and behold when I opened it with quicken the transaction I had entered this morning was there! A couple of times in doing this experimenting quicken had to reconstruct indices, but I assume that's because while quicken writes the important (transaction) data to the file on the fly, it doesn't bother to update any redundant metadata. Lesson for me: if I or my wife had noticed her computer had stopped backing up right away, I would have been able to restart the backup and the kerfuffle we got into would never have happened -- there would have been a good backup from a day, or perhaps even a couple of hours, of when we discovered our current file was corrupted. It also means I can turn off the calendar entries I have that force quicken to quit every night — if ever we do need to find a backup, there will indeed be one. Sure, it's a bit faster to use one of Quicken's own backups if I have to go back a day or two, than to find the Time Machine backup, but not particularly easier. One hint: if you want to examine the modification times of the package contents in the backups, to find the one you want, you have to open the package BEFORE you enter Time Machine.

jacobs · June 2018

Time Machine does not back up file by file the way you are imagining. Time Machine uses a format called sparse bundles, which is an alternate type of directory of what's on a disk. Time Machine does not look at individual files' modification dates and times to determine what needs to be backed up.

smayer97 · June 2018

At that is why TM backs up my QM2007 data even if the package timestamp is not updated.

All this discussion just points to how item 4) in the Add More Options to Automatic Back-ups would be useful. So if you feel so inclined... add your vote. ;-)

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

Unknown · June 2018

Before starting the download, what is the difference (pros/cons) between SuperDuper and Carbon Copy?

Quicken Harold · June 2018

To provide for better discussion.

Please reference the new conversation here: QMac: Cannot open QM2007 Files

smayer97 · June 2018

This forked failed...the new link does not work...

RickO · June 2018

NanB... That's kind of beyond the scope of this forum. You'd probably be better just Googling to find the differences and reviews. There's probably some info on MacWorld.com

Unknown · June 2018

Thanks, Rick.
I actually did Google it. I had never heard of SuperDuper and wanted to learn more about it. That's when Carbon Copy came up. I just wondered if the Quicken users had a preference.

Unknown · June 2018

No idea why "Quicken Harold" moved or "Forked" my comment from 3 weeks ago and the subsequent helpful comments, but the link in his email doesn't work and I cannot find them. They were directly part of this topic of using QM2007 with High Sierra and the experiences as Apple continues to upgrade HS. Any idea where they went? The new comments continue to come to my email, but if I try and View Comment, it comes here where the comment does not exist. Thanks

Unknown · June 2018

I would also like to have those comments back. They were very helpful to me as I've been trying to work and keep my QM 2007 running. Hopefully Harold (or someone else) will put them back.

Quicken Harold · June 2018

Hello all,

The thread has not been changed.

Respectfully,
~ Quicken Harold.

jacobs · June 2018

Yes, you moved a reply yesterday morning to a different thread, but the link didn't work, and all the replies -- which I see only via email -- are not visible anywhere.

jacobs · June 2018

With all due respect, you did change the thread yesterday. Here are screen shots of the emails I got from yesterday, from the post which apparently triggered you to make a change, your action, and several of the follow-up replies, none of which are visible.

At 2:13 pm (Eastern), there was this post to the thread:

At 2:30 pm (Eastern), you took this action:

Unfortunately, the link in that post is QMac: Cannot open QM2007 Files and does not work, as was noted by smayer97 10 minutes later...

Unknown · June 2018

Thank you Moderators for returning our thread! YAY!

Unknown · July 2018

SALE on QUICKEN 2018! Tried to sign on 2 days ago and now getting unable to open file. Finally managed to open a 6 month old file. I gave up on 2007 and purchased the 2018. I really just use for the registers. FYI, Quicken.com has a sale, I think through July 6th. Deluxe was $49.99; now $29.99. Premier was $74.99; now $44.99. I was able to transfer my data up to the lost 6 months and down load online individual accounts for the last 3 months and reconstruct the other 2-3 months manually. Decided that even with the excellent help offered here, I am not technically literate enough to apply the suggestions. The Deluxe suits my needs. Just wanted to share the sale info for others in my same boat. Again, thanks for all those who tried to help me.

Unknown · July 2018

Thanks for the tip on the sale. But just so I'm clear - are you saying that if we upgrade from 2007 to 2018 that when we open our old quicken files the data isn't all of the data but only the last 6 months? Or are you talking about downloading online data?

My QM2007 desktop files go back to 1993, so I certainly hope if I upgrade to 2018 that my entire registers would be there, yes?

smayer97 · July 2018

QM2018 is supposed to read all your QM2007 data. This user just had trouble with their data file.

Just be aware that QM2018 is NOT an upgrade from QM2007 but a migration... QM2018 is a new Quicken for Mac product rebuilt from the ground up (built on QEM from 2010) so it still lacks features that exist in QM2007. So be sure to understand if it will meet your needs. You can read a lot more about the differences here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-for-mac-2018-or-qm2007

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

Is Quicken for Mac 2007 (QM2007) Compatible with High Sierra (macOS 10.13)?

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