Is Quicken for Mac 2007 (QM2007) Compatible with High Sierra (macOS 10.13)?

Unknown · June 2018

As of today, I can suddenly not open any of my QM2007 files. It has been working fine and then I quit the program because we were expecting a storm and now while it will launch and ask for my password it then does nothing and will not open any of my files. I'm running OS 10.13.4 now but not on APFS so I don't know whether there was something in the last Mac OS update that did this or what. Any suggestions on anything to try to force an opening?

Otherwise I would buy QM 2017 but now can't find it available for download and I don't want a subscription which is what 2018 forces you to have

this makes me sad!

tmplee · June 2018

Strange. I'm running on 10.13.4 and have no problem (just opened a couple of quicken files right now to make sure!) I am on an APFS volume but I wouldn't think that would suddenly have caused a problem. The only suggestion I would have is to trash all your Quicken pref files. Maybe get a file from backup that used to be OK?

Jack Henriquez · June 2018

Trying to find a QM2017 as well, with little success. If I do find one, I will be happy to share where it is obtainable. Meanwhile, to all, please do the same. Thanks. Jack H.

Unknown · June 2018

So sorry for the panic, I still don't know what caused this, but I don't believe it was the High Sierra. The problem was that every time I retried to open and put in my password and it did nothing it overwrote each of my backups on quitting (ARGH!)

I don't normally quit my Quicken but leave it running in the dock, so a backup isn't forced that often. Thankfully, I had replaced my Mac in March with a newer one and still had the old one in another room and was able to boot that up and open the last QM file which was dated early March. I moved a copy of that back onto my current Mac and it opened right up! So something corrupted the files and then wouldn't let me in and kept rewriting a corrupted copy over my old backups, making me think it was the computer - but it was the file.

Soooo, I've spent today re-creating all my accounts and re-reconciling up to date and made a couple of extra copies of the new updated backup for safe keeping.

Meanwhile though, we are all going to eventually have to bite the bullet and buy new QM, which I'm quite annoyed that we can't find QM 2017 anymore. I am sort of holding out hope though that the 2018 version, while it looks like you are being forced into a subscription, if I understand it correctly you really can cancel that and continue to use it as Desktop only - that the subscription is really for online bill pay (which I never used) and updates to the software....

Thank you all for your support. Its nice to know I'm not the only QM2007 lover out there.

Jack Henriquez · June 2018

I use QM2007 strictly to follow my mut. funds on the computer, never go online as well.
Like I said earlier, if somehow I find a copy of QM2017, will let all know where it came from or if purchased, where I found it. I am trying to find a disk, if so, wondering once I have it, if the software can be shared with all. I just heard of a young man I know (a son's friend) working for Intuit, I will see if I can contact him for a CD of QM2017.

Unknown · June 2018

Over the past number of months on conversations over the compatibility issues with High Sierra and QM2007, it has been suggested to be sure to make copies of our Quicken files (not just rely on the automatic backup). I want to be clear that I am following the proper procedure for making accurate copies in case a file becomes corrupt (which I have had happen multiple times). I believe some are using different ways to copy their files. I've been simply opening each of my Quicken files and under "File" and then hitting "Save A Copy" and then storing them in a separate Quicken Copies folder. Is that how most are duplicating their files??

Thank you!

Unknown · June 2018

Per the End User License Agreement, you can't get one copy of Quicken Mac 2017 and "share" it with other users who haven't paid for it.

Not unless you want to go to jail for pirating software.

Jack Henriquez · June 2018

Don't like that idea for sure. Well, if I find one somewhere, I'll ask if there are more available and share that information. I know that is more appetizing to me. Oh well, I tried.

jacobs · June 2018

Keep in mind that if you find and buy a copy of Quicken 2017, and if you use any of the download/import features, those will end in two years (April 2020). If you buy a two-year subscription to Quicken 2018, you'll have the newer version with the features which have already been added, and those which will be added over the next two years, likely for just a slightly higher price. If you use any of the online features of Quicken, you will have to get on the subscription program by April 2020, and I'm not sure I can see much advantage to buying a copy of Quicken 2017 now.

If you do not use any of the online/download services, assuming you can find a copy of Quicken 2017, I also can't see why would you choose that over a one-year subscription to Quicken 2018. Quicken 2018 will end online service in a year, but if you're not using online services, you don't care. You will be able to continue to use the program indefinitely as long as you do exclusively manual data entry. Meanwhile, you'll get the enhancements currently in Quicken 2018 plus whatever else they fix or add over the next 12 months before your subscription runs out.

On a separate subject, if you are relying solely on Quicken's automated backups for security, you're on thin ice; one hard drive death away from losing all your data. I encourage anyone who has data of any value on their Mac -- form Quicken to photos to music to other documents -- to have at least one, and ideally more than one type of backup. The easiest is the built-in Time Machine, which only requires you to plug in an inexpensive ($100 or less) hard drive and tell it to start running; Time Machine will then back up all your files, and keep backup up changes hourly in the background. but if you have a fire or the disaster at your home, you're still vulnerable if your Mac and the hard drive next to it can both become inoperable. Options include (a) getting a hard drive to which you back up your whole disk (using inexpensive utility software such as SuperDuper! or CarbonCopyCloner) and keeping that backup drive at work, or some other location than your home, or (b) using an online backup service such as BackBlaze to back up your data, (encrypted for safety) to the cloud. Most people believe disaster will never hit them... until it does. Spend the modest amount of time and money to make sure you have reliable backups of your valuable data!

Unknown · June 2018

I have to admit that I've come to the same conclusion as "jacobs" (user above), as I never used any of their online services - I did use Stock Quotes - but I can live without that. As long as 2018 resides on the Desktop (not online like Quickbooks Online - which is awful!). All I want is account registers, categories and reports.

To answer User "NanB" (above), I had never tried Save a Copy before just now and it showed a whole bunch of activity while performing the function, but the result looks like its the same as if you just made a Backup (it makes a .qdfm file) - but it renames it "Copy of (name of file)". You can choose "File>Backup to Disk" and get the same result without the "copy of" in front of the name.

I learned several years ago to make constant backups of my whole system and I go a bit overboard (but I manage several other peoples' lives for a living.)

I have a constant hourly backup via Time Machine to a Time Capsule - but you must realize this is NOT a bootable backup if your system crashes. I also make a nightly backup of my whole computer with SuperDuper to an external drive - which IS bootable.

At work where my Mac is APFS, I have Quicken running and the files are on an external HFS+ drive, which is where it backs up (I also have multiple Time Machine & SuperDuper backups there as well).

Everyone should definitely get a little external drive and back up with something like SuperDuper that makes a bootable clone in case your whole system crashes. You can then actually run your whole computer from that if you had to.

Unknown · June 2018

Arlette - - Thanks so much for responding to my question. I, too, manage many peoples' lives for a living and feel like my life depends on Quicken 2007!!

I thought the files were being automatically backed up by Quicken. If you are choosing "Backup to Disc" what is the difference with the auto backup and where is "Backup to Disc" putting those copies??

I work on a Mac laptop and use an external hard drive as well, but I've never heard of SuperDuper. I just plug in the external hard drive and hit back up (which I believe is backing up through time machine). I thought that was keeping me safe in case of a system crash but it sounds like that isn't the case. Would SuperDuper also be backing up the Quicken 2007 program?

So glad you joined this string - -

tmplee · June 2018

A comment for everyone. Remember that Quicken 2007 does NOT, I repeat, NOT, save its data to disk until you quit it. So, if you leave Quicken running for several days and are making changes every day, if the system suddenly crashes, or, say, you lose power, you will lose everything you've done during that period, no matter how diligent you are about backups. My wife tends to leave her copy of Quicken running all the time, since she never knows when she's "done", so I've written a small AppleScript to force it to quit every evening at 10PM (triggered by a calendar event.) Initially I also had it restart after sufficient time had elapsed for the save to take place, but I ran into problems with that, no matter how long a time I'd allowed. Another word to the wise: I mentioned that I discovered, when it came time to recover from a corrupted Quicken file, that Time Machine had failed to make any backups for about two weeks! I found the magic terminal incantations to look at the Time Machine logs and found nothing interesting. It was backing up fine, with a log entry saying a backup had been complete. Then nothing. No log entries for two weeks! And then they continued as normal. No hint of what might have gone wrong, and I know I didn't turn off backups. So it's probably worthwhile to keep an eye on the Time Machine icon in the menu bar just to see that it's doing its thing every now and then.

Unknown · June 2018

Just chiming in to agree with User "tmplee" - I have the same bad habit as his wife - having Quicken open and running for ages as I never shut down my computer. This is why when I had the drama Saturday morning, I had to re-create my Quicken files since mid-March (!). To be honest I presumed it was the last update of Mac OS that finally killed QM2007, and didn't think to try and drag a copy from a Time Machine backup and try it. But in my case I had another Mac handy that didn't have the latest update so I pulled a copy of that and tested it in my new Mac and it worked so I just used that.

To NanB:

As "tmplee" says, unless you tell it to "Save a Backup" (which will be however it is at that moment in time), Quicken DOES NOT backup until you Quit the program. Then it automatically makes a backup to wherever you have it doing that - usually the default location is in Finder>Documents>Quicken Backup Folder (or whatever the name.). If you can't find where they are backing up, do a "Find" for .qdfm and your Mac will find where those files are and that is where they are saving to.

The Back-up-on-Quit is what a large part of this whole BB topic is talking about - people who discovered that the Quicken for Mac 2007 automatic-backups-on-quitting stopped happening when the Mac has been upgraded to High Sierra and is NOT running on a Journaled HFS+ internal drive. If you are running High Sierra on an SSD or Fusion drive, QM2007 will no longer save backups to that Mac on Quit. (I think it gives you a message saying it couldn't backup.) This is why we have found the current solution (as I described I do above at my office which is an SSD) of having Quicken and the Backups Folder residing on an external drive formatted as Journaled HFS+.

Aside from Quicken issues, you should definitely invest in a small external drive (I use a Seagate Backup Plus) and buy SuperDuper - you can get it online and download it - its the best $27.95 you'll ever spend.

You can get it here:

https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html

You can create any schedule to backup you like - once a week, every other day, daily- whatever you like. I have mine set to backup every night at 11:30pm. But it doesn't back up individual files, it backs up your ENTIRE computer and most importantly, it makes it bootable. So if your computer hard drive suddenly dies, you can startup your Mac from that bootable clone and literally run your computer from that! If you had to get a new hard drive or buy a new Mac, you can copy that whole thing to the new computer. I once had an iMac die years and ago and literally ran it for another few years from the bootable external drive. (its actually still in my garage and will still work! LOL)

Anyway, we all know we are biding our time before QM2007 will one day no longer work and I agree that it might make sense to bite the bullet and buy QM2018 (the Deluxe or Premier versions so you can continue when your subscription runs out.)

Have a great evening & week everyone!

tmplee · June 2018

I believe it is possible to restore a complete system (including the OS) from a Time Machine backup, so long as your recovery partition is working, but that isn't the same as booting from it. What I don't know is if you can "restore" a complete Time Machine backup to a new, fresh external drive, using whatever working Mac you have, and boot from that if your main drive is dead.

jacobs · June 2018

Sorry to disagree with one point above, but it's absolutely incorrect that Quicken 2007 doesn't save anything to disk until the program is quit. (I was sure of this, but to prove it in a simple test, I opened a Quicken 2007 data file, entered a transaction, waited a little, and then Force Quit Quicken. Upon re-launching, Quicken had retained the transaction I entered.) Like most database programs, data is written to the database as data is changed, sometimes with some buffering delay; this is why there is no "save" command in Quicken.

What you may have experienced is that the way Quicken updates its data file, it may not always be detected by Time Machine if the file is still open, and so Time Machine may skip backups you'd expect.

@NanB, you ask where Quicken 2007 is putting its backup files. The answer is: wherever you tell it to. Open Quicken Preferences, go to File Backup, and where it says Quicken Backup Folder, click the Choose button to select a folder, (or see where it it currently storing backups). As others have mentioned, using a program like SuperDuper does a whole disk backup ever time it runs, whereas Time Machine is keeping only a record of what has changed since previous backups, and keeps this in a format only Time Machine can read. Consider these backup types complementary, not exclusive, especially if you take the drive you use with SuperDuper too an off-site location for added security.

jacobs · June 2018

@tmplee: No, a Time Machine backup does not contain the operating system. The recovery partition loads a mini-version of the operating system, and proceeds to download the OS installer program, which then installs the operating system; then Time Machine can restore your data, preferences, etc. (Assuming everything works correctly, the effect is the same as restoring your entire Mac from Time Machines, but that's not exactly what is happening. One thing to be aware of is that the OS installed by the recovery partition may be a newer dot version of the OS than you had on your hard drive; that' s not usually a problem, and shouldn't be with Quicken, which is rarely affected by Apple's dot updates.)

Unknown · June 2018

@jacobs - I don't know I can agree with the idea that Quicken is saving as a database without quitting - at least in my experience. By force quitting, you are quitting and the backup is saved. Its a bit hard to prove because if you leave the program open for days, weeks, months, your latest entries are still there (sort of like if you typed a Pages document, never saved it but kept it open and minimized.) But if you look at the saved backups you have in Finder, you'll see that your last one saved will say "Modified" and it won't have your new time or date you are adding things to it (actually modifying it.) That will only happen when you quit (forced or regular) and the backup saves and new Backup file with the current date and time you just quit.

Even if you look at the Application itself in your Applications folder, you'll see that it hasn't modified in ages. I don't believe its remembering your entries like an Access database or something.

Maybe I'm wrong and its magically saving data as entered, but I've always been under the impression that each time you re-launch QM2007 it was launching from the last data file used (and saved on Quit) - no?

jacobs · June 2018

No, sorry, Force Quit is the equivalent of pulling the plug (or battery) out of your Mac -- nothing is saved, because the application is instantly quit.

The Application in the Applications folder is never modified (unless there's a new version of the program). Quicken (and almost all modern apps) do not write to and modify the application itself; there are external support files for things it needs to remember, such as the pathname to the last data file opened.

Again, it's not "magically saving data"; it's the way almost every database program, including Quicken, works. It's very different than a document-based program like Pages. This is why document-based programs have Save commands, and a database like Quicken does not.

Again, if you want to see this in action, create a new Quicken 2007 data file. Enter a transaction. Quit. Re-launch. Your entry is there. Now enter another transaction. After you click Record or press Enter, do a Force Quit, or even pull the plug out on your Mac (well, I don't actually recommend you do that, but it would have the same effect). Restart Quicken. Your second transaction will be there.

Just think of it from a common sense standpoint: would it make sense that a program like Quicken could lose an hour's worth of work, with no way to save what you're doing except to quite the program? No program would be devised that way; it would have to have a Save command to allow you to save periodically as you go along. But Quicken, like FileMaker Pro and other database programs (except those which work entirely in RAM), do not have a Save command, because they are frequently saving transactions to the database.

smayer97 · June 2018

QM2007 ALWAYS SAVES DATA AS IT IS ENTERED (except maybe the last entry or so if there is a crash or Force Quit)!!! The only thing that ALL versions of Quicken do not do is create a BACKUP while it is still running...it currently only does it on QUIT.

That said, you can add your VOTE to Add More Options to Automatic Back-ups.

The first 3 features in that IDEA thread have been implemented. Marcus has agreed that option 4 is a good idea. So, let's have him add this in too...

First, click on the underlined link above to go there, then click VOTE at the top of THAT page, so your will vote count for THIS feature and increase its visibility to the developers by seeking to have the features you need or desire end up in the latest version.

While you are at it, you may want to add your VOTE to related IDEAS found on the
List of Requests for Data and File Management Features. Click on the underlined link, then follow the instructions to add your vote to more related ideas. Your VOTES matter!

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

Unknown · June 2018

@jacobs & @smayer97 - I stand corrected

Glad to know its saving your continual input, so the only thing gained by the backups on Quit is just that - a backup. I love this forum!

tmplee · June 2018

I was both and right and wrong. I agree, after my own experiment too, that Quicken 2007 does save transactions to the disk file when they are entered (or possibly after a short delay.) The problem with backups, however, is that Quicken does not change the "modified" date and time stamp on the file until it is quit. So, Time Machine is not going to catch that things have been changed and back up. If you leave Quicken running continuously, yes, all transactions will be recorded to the file on disk, even before a crash of some kind — but you won't be able to go back to any previous versions of your data other than those captured each time you quit Quicken in the past (or manually caused a backup.) In my experiment I duplicated a good Quicken file and renamed it to "quickentest". I entered some transactions in an account and let it sit for a couple of hours. I then duplicated the file again. The modification date/time stamp on both files was some time yesterday. I opened both of them and indeed both included the new transactions. I suppose the other thing one could do is write a little shell script that "touched" (there's a shell command for that) the file every now and then to force Time Machine to back it up by changing the modification date/time. Hmmmm... I just might do that!

smayer97 · June 2018

Odd about Time Machine.... I am one that keeps QM2007 open for days at a time (and I do use Quicken automated backups on Quit)... I've done testing in the past but I had to double check... my Time Machine backs up my main data file every day and the time stamp does not change yet the content does... I am still on Mac OS 10.6.8. Not sure is that is a factor...

can anyone else confirm if their Time Machine misses or backs up their main data file if kept open?

Unknown · June 2018

I'm a bit confused about the Time Machine question, as I've always thought TM was backing up hourly exactly how your Mac was at that hour. Soooo, theoretically wouldn't it also be capturing that Quicken data file that has the latest additions even if it were always open and running? I don't know how you could test this...

Unknown · June 2018

The question is whether the data file is updated and saved "along the way" or do you have to exit Quicken and then Quicken saves the data file.

If the former, leaving Quicken open and running for days would result in the data file not writing to your hard drive and thus not being backed up by Time Machine.

Probably an easy way to test this is to do some work in Quicken Mac, keep it open and then go to Finder and look at the date and time stamp. What does it say?

If it writes as you go along, then the date and time stamp should be up to date. If it writes when you close Quicken, it should have a date and time stamp from when Quicken was last closed.

Time Machine will only backup files that have been changed...according to the time stamp. If there is no change in the date time stamp, the file doesn't get copied to your Time Machine backup.

Unknown · June 2018

Apparently, Quicken Mac writes to your hard drive "as you work".

I opened Quicken Mac 2017. Then closed it. Opened Finder. The Quicken data file showed a time of 4:23 PM MST.

Opened Quicken Mac 2017 again...and left it open. Opened Finder. The Quicken data file showed a time stamp of 4:25 PM MST.

tmplee · June 2018

RickO — thanks for that reminder! I knew that the Quicken data file was a package, but I didn't know that if an internal file of a package is modified, the time stamp on the package itself isn't necessarily modified to reflect that. (It appears to me, but I haven't done extensive exploration of it, that in the case of Quicken files, the package time stamp only gets updated when Quicken does a save of the "whole" file.) Anyway, I can confirm for everyone what others have reported that a) quicken does update the data to disk "on the fly", and b) Time Machine will back up such an updated file. At about 5:50 PM I made a copy of a quicken file that that had been saved this morning, opened the copy, and entered a transaction into one of the accounts. I left quicken running and came back about 8:15 PM. The time stamp on the file had not changed. But I looked into the package and saw that the "data file" now had a timestamp of 5:50 PM!. I went into Time Machine and found a backup set at about 7:30 PM. I restored the whole quicken file from that backup to a different location and lo and behold when I opened it with quicken the transaction I had entered this morning was there! A couple of times in doing this experimenting quicken had to reconstruct indices, but I assume that's because while quicken writes the important (transaction) data to the file on the fly, it doesn't bother to update any redundant metadata. Lesson for me: if I or my wife had noticed her computer had stopped backing up right away, I would have been able to restart the backup and the kerfuffle we got into would never have happened -- there would have been a good backup from a day, or perhaps even a couple of hours, of when we discovered our current file was corrupted. It also means I can turn off the calendar entries I have that force quicken to quit every night — if ever we do need to find a backup, there will indeed be one. Sure, it's a bit faster to use one of Quicken's own backups if I have to go back a day or two, than to find the Time Machine backup, but not particularly easier. One hint: if you want to examine the modification times of the package contents in the backups, to find the one you want, you have to open the package BEFORE you enter Time Machine.

jacobs · June 2018

Time Machine does not back up file by file the way you are imagining. Time Machine uses a format called sparse bundles, which is an alternate type of directory of what's on a disk. Time Machine does not look at individual files' modification dates and times to determine what needs to be backed up.

smayer97 · June 2018

At that is why TM backs up my QM2007 data even if the package timestamp is not updated.

All this discussion just points to how item 4) in the Add More Options to Automatic Back-ups would be useful. So if you feel so inclined... add your vote. ;-)

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)

Unknown · June 2018

Before starting the download, what is the difference (pros/cons) between SuperDuper and Carbon Copy?

Quicken Harold · June 2018

To provide for better discussion.

Please reference the new conversation here: QMac: Cannot open QM2007 Files

Is Quicken for Mac 2007 (QM2007) Compatible with High Sierra (macOS 10.13)?

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