R52.33 - Unable to open data file on first try - then opens after pointing to file (edit75)
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In modern operating systems a program can open a file exclusively ("locked" as we're calling it) or not (database, modern office files that can be edited by multiple people at once, etc). But either way the OS and pretty much any newer backup software will know the file is open. This is why most backup software can't back up databases, MS Exchange, etc without special plugins, so they won't cause corruption or issues. Even if the file isn't "locked", it is still known to be open.
Doesn't really apply in this case anyway, I'm sure quicken is opening its file for exclusive access and locking everything else out of it. Why it closes and reopens it at various points is a mystery.
Quicken doesn't need to have any error correction ability to have a reliable network share, as long as you're running on a halfway decent OS on either end, that handles error detection and correction. We're not in the stone ages anymore, even a wireless network is perfectly reliable in the vast majority of cases. Heck I work every day over a wireless network, that connects via a VPN to the UK, that runs over a corporate LAN including WAN circuits to various countries around the globe. I can't remember the last time I had any sort of corrupted file, and nothing is stored locally on our laptops, everything is on sharepoint or onedrive (both hosted in the UK). Heck even shared office files work fine, and I'm definitely no fan of multiple people working on the same file at once.
Obviously Quicken needs to limit their exposure and can recommend against using network shares (given the archaic database structure in a QDF file, even the fastest network share would be a big performance hit anyway so it isn't something one should do regardless) but waiving them of any responsibility to make sure their program runs on supported Windows and Mac OS isn't reasonable either. They need to make sure their program works on the platforms it is advertised to work on.
In reality, this is what happens when Private Equity takes over a company. They cut headcount to a skeleton crew, outsource development to foreign countries (developers that work on multiple projects and never actually use or understand the software they're updating) and everything becomes reactive instead of proactive….
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In reality, this is what happens when Private Equity takes over a company. They cut headcount to a skeleton crew, outsource development to foreign countries (developers that work on multiple projects and never actually use or understand the software they're updating) and everything becomes reactive instead of proactive….
Why everyone seems to think this the case is beyond me. All indicates and statements are that the Windows group stayed about the same, the Mac group grew tremendously and they up the support people. Intuit was no friend to Quicken, to them it was a pain in the side that barely moved the needle revenue wise. The best thing that could have happened to Quicken is Intuit selling it. The only other possibility would have been to completely shut it down.
What people don't seem to get is that is has gotten worse to try to maintain even the same functionality because of the security concerns at the financial institutions (and the lack of standardization at those financial institutions). And at the same time try to provide more functionality that their customers have requested. Quicken Inc didn't kill of the old Bill Payment system for instance, that company stop providing it and Quicken Inc had to scramble to provide something to replace it. OneDrive was definitely changed, now it is given that Quicken isn't handling the locks an ideal way, but they have been getting away with it since the day they first created Quicken Windows.
The world is changing, and Quicken is a very old program with very old assumptions about the environment it is running in. There isn't anything new about the fact that changes made in the environment have had a negative impact on Quicken and the Quicken developers haven't been able to completely workaround these problems. Multiple monitors, High resolution displays with Windows scaling, …
People just don't seem to understand, that this has nothing to do with Quicken being owned a Private Equity and everything to do with the fact that there is no way that Quicken Windows can economically be rewritten, and without that it will always be a struggle to try to maintain functionality (and extend it) as the environment in which it is running changes.
This is why most backup software can't back up databases, MS Exchange, etc without special plugins, so they won't cause corruption or issues. Even if the file isn't "locked", it is still known to be open.
But that is just it, Quicken's data file has an embedded database in it. It has the same requirements as MS Exchange, but without the modern support. Anyone setting up MS Exchange knows that it has special requirements. The average Quicken user doesn't. And now that has been posted to every user, what it the reaction? I definitely think that Quicken Inc messed up because they didn't inform everyone of their requirements, but scan the oldest Quicken forum or documents since "Cloud sync" was created and you will find that Intuit and Quicken Inc have always said that putting your data file in such a folder will lead to problems. Well, now it has. If you were an IT person and you ignored Microsoft's requirements for MS Exchange and then had problems. You can bet that Microsoft isn't going to rewrite their code to allow you to keep ignoring their requirements.
Doesn't really apply in this case anyway, I'm sure quicken is opening its file for exclusive access and locking everything else out of it. Why it closes and reopens it at various points is a mystery.
One of the first things I learned about debugging other people's programs (or just studying how they work) is that programmers are logically, they don't do things for no reason (well in most cases, or they will not be a programmer for very long).
Base on that assumption any code you see that doesn't make sense can usually be categorized as one of these:
- You don't understand the code/problem (you are problem not the code).
- Things have changed since the code was put in, and that code might not be needed or even do the wrong thing in the "new environment".
- The programmer understands that there is a problem for the old code in the new environment, but either can't find a solution that is possible to do given the current requirements (framework of the software, cost to change, technically impossible).
- Even when the code was put in it was known that it wasn't ideal, but because constraints on time, cost, or skill level, they choose to do something not ideal. And the future programmer sometimes just can't reverse that decision because too much is based on it. I love how much complaining goes on when the programmers come in and change something that really should have never been done that way, but because the users have got used to it or even used it to do things the software was never meant to do.
- The programmer made a mistake.
This is a long-winded way of saying "It made sense at the time" (why they open and close the data file at times).
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I wanted to add that I'm glad they are trying to resolve this issue as I know that using a file in cloud storage isn't supported. It was nice that Quicken and OneDrive had been working, but for the one device I'll just dust off the script I made from when I was using Dropbox and Google Drive after that as neither one of those worked with Quicken creating backups back when I used them.
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Regarding the Release Notes indicating the fix of data file open errors caused by OneDrive, the behavior is the same. The data file still will not open unless OneDrive is paused. After closing Quicken, OneDrive can be resumed and the data file syncs. In addition to the data file, the ofxlog.dat and _synclog.dat files are getting beat up by OneDrive every time Quicken writes to them.
Data file located at default install location and is password protected.
In case it helps, here are the entries from the qw.log file. They are unique to the file will not open condition. They do not occur when OneDrive is paused, and the file opens cleanly.
Wed Nov 29 21:04:57 2023
Process id : 3128 Thread id : 9412 : Time 21:05:02 : DbC EnsureViolation '(((HRESULT)0x80030050L) == hr) || (((HRESULT)0x80030002L) == hr)' in QWRootStorage_RawOpen (utilstorage.cpp @ line # 248.)
Process id : 3128 Thread id : 9412 : Time 21:05:02 : DbC EnsureViolation 'itrDataBase != g_udtDatabases.end()' in QWStorage_StreamOpen (utilstorage.cpp @ line # 773.)
Process id : 3128 Thread id : 9412 : Time 21:05:08 : DbC PreconditionViolation 'pDB != 0 && resourceType < GetNumResourceTypes() && pResource != 0 && !IsResourceVariableSize(resourceType) && pRsrcSpec != 0' in QDBGetResource (qdb.c @ line # 1749.)
Process id : 3128 Thread id : 9412 : Time 21:05:08 : DbC PreconditionViolation 'pDB != 0 && resourceType < GetNumResourceTypes() && pResource != 0 && !IsResourceVariableSize(resourceType) && pRsrcSpec != 0' in QDBPutResource (qdb.c @ line # 1822.)1 -
I tried the suggested update but it did not fix the problem with OneDrive.
The first time it opened it ok. The 2nd time it failed. I thought I might have made a typo in my password so I continued to open and close the file repeatedly, carefully checking the password each time.
It opened the file ok for 3 times, but the 4th time it failed. I'm sure the password was correct this time.
As requested, the path to my data file is: C:\Users\MyUserName\OneDrive\Documents\Quicken
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@Quicken Anja you asked for the results after applying the patch (following the instructions exactly). It did not work for me. It was actually worse until I stopped my OneDrive sync.
My file is located in this Onedrive location:
C:\Users\markt\OneDrive\Documents\Quicken
Before the patch, I received a file open error which I could get past by doing a Validate and Repair File… (not pausing OneDrive sync) after completing work, I could sync and close normally and then go through the same process to open my next session.
After the patch, I cannot open the file (like before). When I attempt to use the Validate and Repair File step and put my password in, the file will not open.
Where I had a workaround previously, it stopped working.
I then went into OneDrive and paused the sync and tried again to do the Validate and Repair File - this time it worked, but rather than taking me into my Quicken Classic destop program, I was prompted to login to my ID online. After I'd successfully input my online ID and password (different from desktop file password), that screen moved through an animation of the online Quicken screen moving right to left, then the online image disappeared and my desktop program opened successfully.
I accepted a few transactions and balanced a few accounts, and the program seemed to function correctly. I sync'ed and exited. I was able to reopen the file (without Validate and Repair File or the additional online login). Download and accepting transactions worked fine. This second open was with OneDrive sync still paused.
My apologies if this isn't where you wanted the follow-up information posted, however, I didn't see explicit directions in the post so am doing my best to post it here (since the Category would not allow me to select Product Alerts or Known Issues) and get you the requested information. Thanks!
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Yes Quicken has a database embedded, but they lock the file for exclusive access while it is open (even though they oddly close and open the file multiple times) so there is no need to worry about consistency or multiple users working on the same DB concurrently, so that doesn't change anything related to backup or synch. Onedrive will not synch an open file unless it is a Microsoft 365 file that supports constant synch. Same with any other backup software.
While I don't claim to know what changes happened at Quicken when PE took over, I've seen it with every single company I've worked with that PE has bought. It happens to many of my customers and even a couple competitors and it is almost immediate slashes without regard to who is or isn't necessary, just cut the developers, keep one or two to train the india team, then cut them as well. Maybe keep one person that knows a little bit about it. Their products and services immediately suffer. Given how long it takes Quicken nowadays to resolve even minor issues, and the fact that every fix introduces new bugs and unexpected behavior, I have to imagine that is at least partially the case. No, they don't get rid of everyone, but most of the ones that go are the higher paid ones, and they were paid high for a reason, they knew what they were doing.
Quicken 2017 had no problem maximizing to fill various screen resolutions up to 1920x1080 (no scaling), and ever since I was forced to upgrade, it no longer does, it is not fully maximized. This is on 3 different PCs I've tried. I've never seen any other program do this. The bills and income tab has all kinds of display bugs. Restoring a backup file now completely breaks all of your EWC and EWC+ connections requiring a convoluted deactivate, sign out, repair, sign in, activate process (hence now using onedrive version history to restore rather than backups, making it a critical feature). The various Roth 401K hacks they keep doing just keep breaking more things, I go through and update all my prior paychecks to match their new model, then they go back and change it again (and it is still nowhere near fit for purpose, they clearly had no idea what a Roth 401K was or how it works, they just got a ticket to implement it and tossed something together). It is clear from many, many aspects of Quicken that the people developing it do not actually use it, or understand finance at all. They still don't even know what an HSA is. Portfolio view is wildly inaccurate, the program is dead slow even on the latest and greatest PC (from what I can tell the archaic programming uses rudimentary wait timers based on 10 year old computers, it is the only explanation why a major computer upgrade yields little to no performance improvement). The list goes on and on.
2017 was far from perfect but the bugs since I had to upgrade in 2020 are constant and just keep getting worse. I doubt anyone will rewrite the program, but just trying to jam in new features to get new subscribers when existing features don't work, and the new features aren't properly written or tested, they're just driving this into the ground.
MS released an add in for excel, definitely not a quicken replacement, but maybe they're testing the waters and might put their hat back in the game. Unlikely, but one can only hope. I pay the same yearly fee for Quicken as I do for the entire MS 365 suite, and yet it can't handle basic calculations correctly. I have to rely on an external spreadsheet and some highly customized reports I've created in Quicken to get an accurate view of my investment performance (and the Bogleheads spreadsheet does it much more accurately, with far fewer data points).
I guess Quicken has decided that the software is only going to bring X revenue and thus they are only going to spend X money on it, and I'm sure the priority for that money is to add "features" to try and attract new revenue, with bugs and fixes being lower priority. The blame game gets old though, sure maybe MS made a change, or maybe a bank changed their site so screen scrape isn't lined up right anymore, but we're paying for the ability to download financial transactions, so they need to keep on top of that (or keep on top of Intuit to resolve those issues faster).
I do not expect perfection ever with this software, it is layer upon layer of old stuff cobbled together with new, but at least stop breaking stuff, and make sure your new features are tested and fit for purpose before rolling them out. I'm not paying to be a beta tester.
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@Quicken Jasmine I tried this patch process this morning and unfortunately it doesn't solve the issue. My file location path is "C:\Users\tlpwi\OneDrive\Quicken\FY2023.QDF". The file would not open and I had to pause OneDrive sync to get the file to open. I then closed quicken, allowed the sync to complete fully, reattempted again and got the same result. In both cases I could only open if I first paused OneDrive Sync.
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The patch does not solve my problem too. I will keep "pausing" OneDrive sync before opening up Quicken.
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Doesn't work for me either. When I enter password I get dialog box "Quicken is unable to open……….." (I attached a screen shot). After a few attempts signing in it will eventually take my password and open the Quicken file. But then I have to sign into my Quicken account before it works.
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I can confirm this same experience after applying the patch. Before, I could open the file just fine after I got past the above pictured error message. After the patch, it still won't open unless I pause OneDrive sync.
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Installed the patch from 11/29 recommendation with no success
C:\Users\username\OneDrive\Quicken
Showing as Version B63.19 Build 27.2.63.19
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Followed these instructions and reinstalled Quicken twice as a result. No change whatsoever. Quicken still fails to open on first attempt but will then open on second attempt.
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Same. It installed fine, but I still have to manually open the data file about every other time I open quicken.
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Still an issue.
Installed the update but it appears to be worse than before. Took four attempts to finally be able to open the file the first time after the install. The issue (password fail, unable to open file) used to arise maybe once out of every three attempts.
Also failed once on the second attempt about 15 minutes later
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This is stilll an issue and NOT fixed. Fortuneately there are several easy workarounds for me. One is to just close Quicken once you get the error message and then reopen it and it then finds the right file. The second method I've used is to open the file manually after the error message, but then it requires me to log into my Quicken online account.
my data path is:
C:\Users\MikeKaiser\OneDrive\1_Financial Records\Quicken Files
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I can't download the patch. It stops after 2 MB; then, after 5-10 minutes, allows me to resume and download another 2MB. I've gotten to 36MB and am giving up. Based on other comments, it doesn't work anyway.
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I applied the patch as directed. The problem remains. (still have to pause One Drive to open the data file).
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I applied the new patch today. Quicken would not open. Message: "Quicken is unable to open the selected file. If this is a Quicken file, validate the file using File menu → Validate and Repair. Update any antivirus applications on your computer. Restart Windows before trying to open the file again in Quicken."
I tried a second time without restarting. I didn't open. I immediately tried again and it worked, after signing in to your server.
Quicken is in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Quicken\qw.exe"
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I did "Report a problem" in the application to send up log files if that is helpful.
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Update - I just installed Quicken Classic Deluxe on my new home computer with Windows 11 and it works normally. Perhaps this is also a windows 10 issue?
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Since OneDrive would be updated to the same version on Windows 10 as it is on Windows 11, I would expect them both to have the same problem.
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problem exists in my windows 11 environment
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I have the same problem and it started after the last Quicken update. To my mind, it's pretty ridiculous that Quicken can't function by opening a saved file on a cloud drive like Quicken - I mean come on people, get with the 21st century and update the archaic mindset that you have. Your software is essentially a database and should be able to query and utilize a source file, no matter the location…this is basic database functionality your software should be more than capable of dealing, particularly with such a major provider like Microsoft. It blows my mind how intransigent and inflexible you are with what you do.
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@Christopher Pierdominici It isn't a "mindset" it is a very old code base. And just for the record database in general need special treatment in comparison to regular data files. And before one calls for a "rewrite of Quicken" I will tell that it can't be done economically.
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FYI - I have Microsoft OneDrive version 23.226.1031.0003 on both my 10 year old PC running Windows 10 and my new HP Z2 Workstation running Windows 11. Quicken Classic Deluxe has error issue on the old Windows 10 PC, but works fine on the new Windows 11 HP Z2 Workstation. I just checked Quicken and see I'm running different versions. On my old Windows 10 PC I had updated to the patch Version Beta63.19. My new Windows 11 PC has most recent version R53.16. I might delete the patched beta version and revert to the standard R53.16 as the OneDrive has changed several times since it was first reported as related to OneDrive version 23.209.1008.0002 back in October.
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Installed the patch but no change to results. As you requested, the file path is C:\Users\rdhil\OneDrive\Documents\Quicken
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Installed the patch, didn't work. Uninstalled Quicken, reinstalled it, applied patch, and still couldn't open data file. Data file path is "C:\Users\jsatt\OneDrive\Quicken Data - Shared\Current.QDF"
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I installed the patch and it seems to be working. I opened and closed the program several times and it opens the file without issue.
my path is C:\Users\bobby\OneDrive\1Drv Home Docs\Financial\Quicken\xxx.qdf
Using Windows 10 Home
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Additional information related to my post above. I did a validation on my data file and found some orphaned transactions reported. I made a copy of my dataset and, after validating and super-validating it to confirm the orphaned transactions had been removed, reconnected it to my various online accounts. Trying to open that dataset with OneDrive active consistently fails.
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