Lifetime Planner Bug and Idea List - Make Yourself Heard!

Scooterlam · March 2018

Lifetime Planner (LTP) seems to be a well-neglected feature in Quicken - for years - not updated, not improved, not modernized. I’m not quite sure why so little attention is paid to such an important tool. So many development cycles expended on seemingly “rearranging the deck chairs”, misunderstood or misinterpreted market demands, not to mention fixing the newly created bugs at the expense of improving important features like LTP.

In Quicken today, so much effort is expended on spending and investment management features, and rightfully so. The third leg of this stool, however, is retirement planning via Lifetime Planner. “How are my spending and investment performances, coupled with important economic and life factors such as taxation, longevity, and inflation, impact my plan and show my readiness for retirement”? Not an easy question to answer, but LTP ties this all together.

I took the time to compile as many Lifetime Planner bug and idea posts as I could find that had a reasonable amount of discussion and detail. I’m sure I didn’t get everything that has been contributed over the last several years. And shockingly, some of these issues do impact plan results and have stayed broken for years.

Please have a look at the categories and links, below. Like them, vote on them, add to them and make them better. Feel free to use this thread to add your own ideas and bugs. As you know and expect, if you include very few details and are vague as to the problem and its solution – how big, how broken, how widespread, how it helps, et al – Quicken will not likely take note...Illustrations are always helpful. You may know your pet issue well, but make it easier for the person who will read and potentially act on it, to understand it easily.

The time is well overdue to have a concerted effort to fix bugs, ensure future maintenance releases as tax law changes, and make small improvements toward an overall modern and integrated planner. There are a lot of retirement planning tools that are as good or better than Lifetime Planner. Oftentimes, when looking at online reviews from mainstream financial sites, Quicken is not even mentioned as a viable retirement solution.

A change is needed in this area of Quicken. Please vote and contribute.
Make your voice heard!

Scott

2018 QW HBR r7.5

The Lifetime Planner bug and idea list:

Tax advantaged accounts (401k, IRA et al) contribution levels/limits are incorrect since circ. 2007 or 2008:

BUG: is there a 10,500 tax-defered savings limit? Lifetime planner seems to revert to 10,500 even when I enter a higher figure. | Quicken Customer Community [Unavailable]

Social Security various calculation issues related to SS taxation, spouse planning assumptions and spouse survivorship benefits:

Required Minimum Distribution (RMD) calculation issue with divisor that overstate the withdrawal – all links point to same general issue of RMD modeling going back 3+ years.

DEBT REDUCTION PLAN NOT MODELED CORRECTLY in LIFETIME PLANNER:
Submitted to Quicken "Report a Problem" on 04.27.2020

Expense Adjustments started and tied to a person after they die:

BUG: Bug Report: Lifetime Planner | Quicken Customer Community [Unavailable]

Scaling issues related to text and labels in Assumptions and What-If dialog boxes, when using large fonts:

BUG: Quicken 2017-Lifetime Planner Fields not long enough to display | Quicken Customer Community

Reporting, Printing and Exporting Data

Reset of Lifetime Planner

(Start Over) and ability to save one or more planning scenarios:

Adding Lifetime Planner to MAC

IDEA: Add Lifetime/Retirement Planner to Quicken Mac | Quicken Customer Community

Modernization of Lifetime
Planner

IDEA: Life Time Planner- Monte Carlo simulations? | Quicken Customer Community

mistertheplague · March 2018

Even if LTP did work properly, you wouldn't want to trust your retirement to it. Way too many variables in retirement planning for a deterministic planner to account for. Use a tool like OnTrajectory or Flexible Retirement Planner.

mshiggins · March 2018

I’m on board for bug fixes, but please no attempts to modernize it.

Scooterlam · April 2018

mshiggins,

What is your apprehension about LTP development (such as introducing a monte carlo approach, mentioned here)? https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/life-time-planner-monte-carlo-simulations

Scott

mshiggins · April 2018

mshiggins,

What is your apprehension about LTP development (such as introducing a monte carlo approach, mentioned here)? https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/life-time-planner-monte-carlo-simulations

Scott

My apprehension is based on past modernization or enhancements to existing features not being well done. The budget revamp in 2012, the loan revamp in 2013, the reminder revamp in 2018, and the Debt Reduction Planner revamp (don't recall the year). While there were some improvements with each revamp, key features were lost or changed in a manner not well received by long time users of the feature. Even years later, the revamped features are not as good as the previous iteration of that feature.

I really like the LTP. I don't want to lose any of its current functionality.

Scooterlam · April 2018

mshiggins,

What is your apprehension about LTP development (such as introducing a monte carlo approach, mentioned here)? https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/life-time-planner-monte-carlo-simulations

Scott

I very much like LTP as well. And, thanks for the history lesson regarding your past experiences. +1 on the bug fixes first.

By modernization, I mean introducing a stochastic model that leverages existing functionality and "bolts-on" with the ability to switch on or off monte carlo simulation. That is, ability to use LTP as a deterministic planner as it is today, but give an option to further run monte carlo simulations - to "supercharge" the "what if" feature, so to say.

I can see a path where I believe there could be no changes to current LTP features & functionality while introducing the monte carlo option. But of course, that is just me...

Not saying its easy, it never is, but to your well-taken point, past performance IS AN indication of future results, which is the obvious concern regarding any sort of change effort like this.

Scott
2018 QW HBR r7.5

Link to monte carlo thread:
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/life-time-planner-monte-carlo-simulations

Scooterlam · April 2018

Adding an issue to the original thread:

Social Security various
calculation issues related to SS taxation, spouse planning assumptions and spouse
survivorship benefits:

BUG: https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/lifetime-planner-does-not-reflect-spouses-social...

Scott

2018 QW HBR r7.5

Scooterlam · April 2018

Adding an issue to the original post:

Scaling issues related to
text and labels in Assumptions and What-If dialog boxes, when using large
fonts:

BUG: https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/can-the-planning-assumptions-window-be-enlarged-...

Scott
2018QW HBR r7.5

Scooterlam · April 2018

Adding an issue to the original post:

Graph behavior issues, mouse overs or hover data missing from graph, an intermittent issue:

BUG: https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/mouseovers-missing-from-graphs

Rick22 · June 2018

LTP is one of the most undervalued features of Quicken. It is extremely thorough, and if not for concern over bugs, I would say it rivals analysis from full service financial managers. I hope Quicken does maintain and continue to grow and fix the tool

Scooterlam · June 2018

LTP is one of the most undervalued features of Quicken. It is extremely thorough, and if not for concern over bugs, I would say it rivals analysis from full service financial managers. I hope Quicken does maintain and continue to grow and fix the tool

Hi Rick,

Please consider voting on this thread and on the individual "ideas" links, above. For "Bugs", click on the "me-too" link. Voting helps Quicken gauge interest to updates and improvements to LTP.

Regards,
Scott

RalphA · July 2018

mshiggins,

What is your apprehension about LTP development (such as introducing a monte carlo approach, mentioned here)? https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/life-time-planner-monte-carlo-simulations

Scott

Every Quicken new version I have installed has been painful for a number of months due to introduced errors. I don't trust Quicken to do a major rewrite of LTP.

Scooterlam · July 2018

mshiggins,

What is your apprehension about LTP development (such as introducing a monte carlo approach, mentioned here)? https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/life-time-planner-monte-carlo-simulations

Scott

Point well-taken, RalphA. I've felt that pain as well.
I believe the first efforts must be to address those bugs, prior bad design assumptions and/or lack of maintenance or updates (re: tax related) to the current feature set.

Shore up the fundamentals first. Stuff like this takes a step-wise approach and plan vs. introducing a "big bang" change. Only then, IMO, can they base any future fundamental enhancements (ie modernization) in LTP.
The point of this list is to help Quicken understand the nature of the demand (impact and users affected), issue details and offer some building blocks to an overall plan or strategy for LTP, from which to execute...

Scott2018 QW HBR R9.34

ANONIEM PERSOON · July 2018

Seems https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/why-does-quicken-lifetime-planner-show-a-higher-pension-amount-than-i-entered-in-future-dollars is worth adding to this list.
A user shouldn't have to translate a pension projection back to the equivalent amount in today's dollars. Quicken should accept the pension amount in dollars of the specified year, because that is the amount the person will receive in that year.

markus1957 · September 2018

Question- How does Lifetime Planner handle Roth IRA's in the withdrawal hierarchy? The Help files state taxable accounts are tapped first, then tax-deferred, but Roth's are new relative to the LTP and are not mentioned. Are they the last bucket to be tapped as many advisors recommend or are they co-mingled with the tax-deferred bucket?

Scooterlam · September 2018

Question- How does Lifetime Planner handle Roth IRA's in the withdrawal hierarchy? The Help files state taxable accounts are tapped first, then tax-deferred, but Roth's are new relative to the LTP and are not mentioned. Are they the last bucket to be tapped as many advisors recommend or are they co-mingled with the tax-deferred bucket?

I suspect that Roth account balances and their treatment wrt "order of withdrawal" are co-mingled with the other tax deferred accounts. When creating an account, Quicken does allow selection of a Roth IRA.

But when looking at that same Roth account in "account details" there is only a option to selection "tax deferred", "yes or no". Further, when reviewing the "income and expense" table for any given year, there is just a line item for "tax deferred".

I looked a bit further to see, im my LTP test accounts, if I could set the various account values and retirement dates such that I could discern if Quicken was considering Roth account in the order of withdrawals. No dice....

So, the potential impact for those that have sizeable Roth balances v. TIRA balances could see a significant improvement of forecasted balances in LTP.

So, IMO, a good idea for Quicken to consider in context of some of these other bugs and ideas!

Scott
2018 QW HBR R12.15

mshiggins · September 2018

Suggestion from user Todd Swygert: Add a different graph category and color for tax exempt accounts.

It’s bothered me for years that the Roth IRA money has been lumped in with the Tax Deferred money in the Lifetime Planner.

In my opinion there should not be a Tax Deferred or Taxable selection option for Roth IRA account types, or at least add a third option Tax Exempt. Then in the Lifetime planner add another color to the bar graph to indicate the Tax Exempt portion and separate the amounts in the yearly report summary.

https://getsatisfaction.com/quickenco...

mshiggins · September 2018

Question- How does Lifetime Planner handle Roth IRA's in the withdrawal hierarchy? The Help files state taxable accounts are tapped first, then tax-deferred, but Roth's are new relative to the LTP and are not mentioned. Are they the last bucket to be tapped as many advisors recommend or are they co-mingled with the tax-deferred bucket?

Mark and Scott, you may find this discussion elucidating:

https://getsatisfaction.com/quickenco...

Scooterlam · September 2018

Ah yes, new people learning old things! Thanks mshiggins! Adding Roth Idea to this LTP Bugs and Issues thread....

Improve Transparency of and Adjust Order of Withdrawals for ROTH IRA Tax-Exempt Accounts in LTP:

IDEA: https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/roth-ira-why-tax-deferred-selection-in-account-d... The original idea post for separation of Tax - Exempt accounts (Roth IRA) from Tax Deferred Accounts (T-IRA) in LTP appears to be no longer available. Including link above that describes the separation (transparency) idea, more or less.

IDEA: https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/retirement/tax-savvy-withdrawals Adjust Order of Withdrawals in LTP to be inline with common practices: 1. RMD (if over 70.5), 2. Taxable, 3. Tax-Deferred, 4 Tax-Exempt.

The bottom line, background and details....

So, I read this first link which Chris (QPW) provides insight around tax treatment of Roth IRAs. And, Marcus1957, above thread, who asks the question regarding order of withdrawal for Roth IRAs. From this, I went back to my LTP test accounts and tried a few things differently....I hope you can follow and someone can confirm my conclusions...

The bottom line, from what I can see....is:

1. Order of Withdrawals: Roth IRA accounts are tapped before Traditional IRA Accounts. In other words, Taxable, then Roth IRAs, then Traditional IRAs.

2. Roth IRAs in QW are treated correctly as Tax Exempt: Tax treatment of Roth IRA's in Quicken show them, in my testing as well, as being treated as Tax-Exempt. Even though, as Chris (QPW) et al point out (in the first link) that they are shown as Tax-Deferred in Quicken. So, no taxes are taken from Roth IRA as they are withdrawn. Need better transparency between Tax Deferred and Tax Exempt in Q.

3. RMDs are Correctly Taken solely from R_IRAs: As an added bonus, I see that the RMDs are taken from the T_IRA as opposed to the Roth IRA. So RMDs also seem to be calculated and withdrawn correctly from the T_IRA only, despite the Roth IRA being shown in Quicken as a tax-deferred account.

If you want to set this up and test for yourself (I hope you can) , here are the LTP parameters I used in my test file, for each of the 3 conclusions....

Inflation = 0%
Investment Gain=0%
Pre-Retirement Tax Rate: 15%
Post-Retirement Tax Rate: 10%
Ages and Events - Image 1
Account Setups - Image 2.

1. Order of Withdrawals >>>Use IRA - Low Balance and IRA Roth Accounts and exclude IRA - Traditional Account

2. Roth IRA Tax Treatment >>>>Use IRA - Roth Account Only, Exclude all others

3. RMD Treatment >>>> Use IRA Low Balance and IRA Roth Accounts and exclude IRA - Traditional Account

4. With each test case >>>> inspect each year's details window from pre-retirement to retirement to RMD event year...

Image 1

Image httpsd2r1vs3d9006apcloudfrontnets3_images1753047RackMultipart20180922-126078-11nxx06-9-22-2018_6-05-00_PM_inlinepng1537658119

Image 2

Image httpsd2r1vs3d9006apcloudfrontnets3_images1753049RackMultipart20180922-50418-v5h3m6-9-22-2018_6-04-33_PM_inlinepng1537659044

Scott

2018 QW HBR R12.15

Scooterlam · September 2018

Adding an issue to the original post:

IRA Account Owner Selected During Account Creation is not the Same Owner Shown in LTP > Planning Assumptions > Investments dialog - ie Ownership Changes and it should not!

IDEA: https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/lifetime-planner-ira-account-owner-assignment-ch...

If you want to see this change made in LTP, please click into the above link and click on the vote button at the top of that thread!

If you want to see overall improvements made to LTP, please click on the vote button at the top of this thread!

Scott
2018 QW HBR R12.15

Tom VanAlstyne · May 2019

Frankly I use the life time planner frequently. I would very much like the planner to be updated to allow for me to run lets say three (or more) retirement scenarios and save each. Under each scenario I might change a variety of parameters. The current "what if" feature is not sufficient. If I retire earlier the pension size and start date would be different than if I retire at a later age. Also I might work part time if retiring early, but not if retiring later - etc.....

A turn off/ turn on Monte Carlo would be nice, but way before that level of improvement I would like to see the multiple scenarios.

PS: I don't want to have to duplicate my entire financial life to run a different scenario on another file. Over the years keeping both up would be a huge burden.

Tom
2019 QW

Scooterlam · June 2019

I started this Lifetime Planner thread to curate the variety of bug reports and ideas needed and requested by users over the years. I find that a number of links are now broken. 2 of 3 idea links, shown below, are broken, among others in this thread... I suspect they were broken in the migration from old to new forum. I cannot find them using the search engine either.

@Quicken can you restore these links and others in this thread that once worked but are now broken?

@Tom VanAlstyne The last link below might have satisfied your need. You can vote on it when Quicken Admins restore the link and forum topic!

Scott

2019 QW HBR

Reset of Lifetime Planner
(Start Over) and ability to save one or more planning scenarios:

neesjc · July 2019

I have been a Quicken user since 1993. In addition, I used the Financial Planner software until the Lifetime Planner was incorporated into Quicken itself. However, as I am now within 10 years of retirement, I have found the Lifetime Planner to be increasingly inadequate.

Although there are several weak areas in the product, the one that baffles me the most is the severely oversimplified tax handling...they also make TurboTax for goodness sakes so it should be a no brainer!

As I have ramped up my reading on retirement planning, I'm regretfully facing the fact that I also need to research a replacement for Quicken which will better address my needs going forward. That is, unless Quicken puts some effort into making the Lifetime Planner the quality tool I know they can!

Jim_Harman · July 2019

Note that Quicken Inc. and Intuit, the maker of TurboTax, are now separate companies.

Scooterlam · July 2019

neesjc said:

I have been a Quicken user since 1993. In addition, I used the Financial Planner software until the Lifetime Planner was incorporated into Quicken itself. However, as I am now within 10 years of retirement, I have found the Lifetime Planner to be increasingly inadequate.

Although there are several weak areas in the product, the one that baffles me the most is the severely oversimplified tax handling...they also make TurboTax for goodness sakes so it should be a no brainer!

As I have ramped up my reading on retirement planning, I'm regretfully facing the fact that I also need to research a replacement for Quicken which will better address my needs going forward. That is, unless Quicken puts some effort into making the Lifetime Planner the quality tool I know they can!

Help make Quicken LTP better by voting on this idea thread as well as those ideas (linked above) that are important to you.

Or, create and describe a new idea or bug fix to address LTP's inadequacies you speak of so that it can be voted on and considered. While it does not necessary result in immediate change, voting helps Quicken product team assess user demand and impact for any particular idea or bug fix.

What specific issues are you having with LTP?

Scooterlam · October 2019

Lifetime Planner links in Quicken | Help webpage broken (timing out).

Every link times-out. Reported on website. Tested on 3 browsers, 2 devices, 2 ISPs... See URL and images, below...

Plain sloppy - blocking and tackling kind of stuff. There isn't software to test links and dump an exception report to the accountable staff to fix?

Going here...

https://www.quicken.com/support/how-do-i-get-started-lifetime-planner

...and clicking on help subtopics...

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/z5/9pxe7g7janv7.png

Gets you here....

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6031128/uploads/editor/z5/7do692qrsxtb.png

Scooterlam · April 2020

Adding an bug report to the original idea post:

DEBT REDUCTION PLAN Not Modeled Correctly in Lifetime Planner:
Submitted to Quicken "Report a Problem" on 04.27.2020

BUG: Lifetime Planner not modeling Debt Reduction Plan Correctly

If you want to see this bug fixed in LTP, please click into the above link and click like or voice your support.

and,

If you want to see overall improvements made to LTP, please click on the vote button at the very top of this thread!

YingDave · June 2020

Just having something equivalent in the Canadian version would be nice - bugs or not! :)

Craig Vorwald · July 2020

I know exactly why there have been no changes to LTP. It is too hard. They could hire a fleet of tax/financial advisors, and it would consume resources I doubt Quicken currently has. Just my thoughts...

ANONIEM PERSOON · August 2020

> @Craig Vorwald said:
> I know exactly why there have been no changes to LTP. It is too hard. They could hire a fleet of tax/financial advisors, and it would consume resources I doubt Quicken currently has. Just my thoughts...

Eh, like many things a little effort could make some large improvements. This thread has some good examples, should Quicken decide to act on them.

Lifetime Planner Bug and Idea List - Make Yourself Heard!

New · Last Updated December 2019

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